Intercooler Stencil Design - Thoughts

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by alexand3r

Cool, don't worry about it then, water under the bridge.

Just keep in mind that starting a sentence with "If you are so" comes off as a personal attack and I don't know you. "Maybe try a boxer logo instead of that phrase" would have come through just as clearly. I have tough skin, but I'm a fucking adult and don't take kindly to that sort of nonsense.

Uh oh...

[alexand3r]

Back on topic, we've decided to go stealth with the the all black IC. A Mishimoto Oil Cooler will also be installed, so painting anything on the IC and getting the position perfect would be a PIA anyway.

Thanks to everyone for their input and opinions. Thanks to @woode and @Fender0122 for the videos, I didn't realize this was such a widespread topic.

[Fender0122]

You bet man. But don't let people bashing stop you from doing a graphic. Do what YOU (or your buddy) think is cool. But regardless, looks like a black background is the best way to go. Shoot, even just the subaru oval symbol (or toyota symbol if its a FRS) painted on it would look cool. I think it's unique and I'm all for that.

By the way, I hear you on the tone people use on forums. Like: "All black, otherwise it's just stupid." There's no need to be negative. We're all putting our ideas out there to get constructive criticism on it. You didn't ask IF it was cool, you asked WHAT would be cool.

Please people, don't turn this forum into NASIOC.

[Fender0122]

Originally Posted by woode

Um, I have researched it.. and I even posted a 10 minute long video that proves my point. Not sure if you are serious?

It's a good video and all, but there are many holes in his logic.

#1 He never mentioned anything about their 40deg difference when stationary.
#2 I trust people who have actual numbers from results, not just a whiteboard and a text book. I agree, thermodynamics may say it doesn't work, but their results show something different. Which means that there's something we're missing here. Only thing I can think is that with a flat paint you are actually increasing the surface area. It might just be possible that the negative effects of it being black and insulating are less than the increased effects of the greater surface area. A good test would be to try flat silver, or a light high-emissivity paint. I also remember the term 'latent heat', meaning how quickly a material changes temperature. It very well could be the latent heat of a rough, black surface affects the dynamics of it in different situations. I'm not a thermal engineer, so I'm just throwing ideas out there.
#3 He didn't even really prove anything by his equation, other than the fact that there was a 3% difference and went on a tangent on that. He made such a big deal about 3% but then talked nothing about the massive 50% difference the black made when stationary.
#4 He mentioned at the end about heat from other components like the engine and such, but wouldn't that be heat radiation and not convection? It almost seams like it's convection when moving and radiation when stationary. Side note: why do they call them radiators, then? (may be because street cars need cooling when stationary [radiation] and race cars need cooling bc they're really never stopped)

He does make some good points, buuuuut they covered a lot of those in the original video (ie. direct sunlight on the black). And I'm not trying to say who's right and who's wrong. I'm genuinely curious about the topic. More research is definitely going to be needed because, again, where I said real experiments are better that whiteboard equations, real track data is more important than bench testing.

Sorry, don't mean to keep it off topic but I think it does kinda pertain to this situation, especially it being in the FI section and not cosmetic mods. Plus, I just read in the development story of our cars how they constantly had to make sure the cosmetics were in harmony with functionality of the car. Let's keep that going!

[woode]

Originally Posted by Fender0122

It's a good video and all, but there are many holes in his logic.

#1 He never mentioned anything about their 40deg difference when stationary.
#2 I trust people who have actual numbers from results, not just a whiteboard and a text book. I agree, thermodynamics may say it doesn't work, but their results show something different. Which means that there's something we're missing here. Only thing I can think is that with a flat paint you are actually increasing the surface area. It might just be possible that the negative effects of it being black and insulating are less than the increased effects of the greater surface area. A good test would be to try flat silver, or a light high-emissivity paint. I also remember the term 'latent heat', meaning how quickly a material changes temperature. It very well could be the latent heat of a rough, black surface affects the dynamics of it in different situations. I'm not a thermal engineer, so I'm just throwing ideas out there.
#3 He didn't even really prove anything by his equation, other than the fact that there was a 3% difference and went on a tangent on that. He made such a big deal about 3% but then talked nothing about the massive 50% difference the black made when stationary.
#4 He mentioned at the end about heat from other components like the engine and such, but wouldn't that be heat radiation and not convection? It almost seams like it's convection when moving and radiation when stationary. Side note: why do they call them radiators, then? (may be because street cars need cooling when stationary [radiation] and race cars need cooling bc they're really never stopped)

He does make some good points, buuuuut they covered a lot of those in the original video (ie. direct sunlight on the black). And I'm not trying to say who's right and who's wrong. I'm genuinely curious about the topic. More research is definitely going to be needed because, again, where I said real experiments are better that whiteboard equations, real track data is more important than bench testing.

Sorry, don't mean to keep it off topic but I think it does kinda pertain to this situation, especially it being in the FI section and not cosmetic mods. Plus, I just read in the development story of our cars how they constantly had to make sure the cosmetics were in harmony with functionality of the car. Let's keep that going!

Good points. Stationary air temps are far more important than moving air temps, and screw physics and math that are too hard to understand - way easier to just spray paint something and say it works.

This post was originally in the cosmetic section, but regardless, spreading false information around doesn't benefit anyone. Anodizing is the correct way to make the intercooler black while maintaining maximum functionality. For a street car it really doesn't matter anyways, and it's annoying arguing over the internet.

As for your question about why they are called "radiators", here is one link. Although it is referring to home radiators, the explanation is the same.. you can find a few other sources as well. Long story short: it's not a true "convector" so they called it "radiator" despite 80-90% of it's heat (or heat dispersion) coming from convection. The term stuck. The English language is full of misnomers.

[Whatabouteggs]

This thread is making me regret buying my car.

[Guff]

[slicktop]

Originally Posted by Guff

Awwww, it's so CUTE!

[Fender0122]

Originally Posted by woode

Good points. Stationary air temps are far more important than moving air temps, and screw physics and math that are too hard to understand - way easier to just spray paint something and say it works.

Did...did you read what I said? "May be because street cars need cooling when stationary [radiation] and race cars need cooling bc they're really never stopped." So perhaps where the data says black is better when stationary, race cars really don't need the black since they are always moving. So instead of coming off as a d1ck, I suggest you try to actually add some intellect to the conversation.

Originally Posted by woode

This post was originally in the cosmetic section, but regardless, spreading false information around doesn't benefit anyone. Anodizing is the correct way to make the intercooler black while maintaining maximum functionality. For a street car it really doesn't matter anyways, and it's annoying arguing over the internet.

Who's the one spreading false information, and who's the one trying to expand the dialog between the two ideas? Where are your numbers that "anodizing is the correct way"? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Also, people build their cars for various reasons. Maybe it's a street car, maybe it's a pure race car, maybe it's something in between. All have different situations that require different modifications. Let's take autocross, for example. There's a lot of stationary time between runs. Hmm wouldn't heatsoak be a problem? Now, if I sacrificed 3deg during my run to prevent it from soaking up 40deg between runs I think I'll paint it black because the run isn't long enough to let the airflow get it back to, well, only 3 deg better. But if I'm doing track days, it makes more sense to have it silver.

Originally Posted by woode

As for your question about why they are called "radiators", here is one link. Although it is referring to home radiators, the explanation is the same.. you can find a few other sources as well. Long story short: it's not a true "convector" so they called it "radiator" despite 80-90% of it's heat (or heat dispersion) coming from convection. The term stuck. The English language is full of misnomers.

See? Providing useful information is a lot more helpful to the community. Thanks for that. I kinda figured it was an old term that just stuck. If it looks like a radiator it is a radiator lol.

By the way, this is not "arguing" over the internet. It's called development. You put your ideas out there for them to grow, not be squashed. Do you think our car would even be here if the Subaru engineers had their way with not developing a RWD car bc it was against their philosophy? With teamwork they created the best of both worlds: Boxer and RWD. And with teamwork we can progress to make these cars even better.

[Guff]

Originally Posted by slicktop

Awwww, it's so CUTE!

It's not about the size, its about well you can use it!

[alexand3r]

Originally Posted by Guff

It's not about the size, its about well you can use it!

Lol, looks good!

[Pkush]

Originally Posted by Whatabouteggs

NOT INTERCOOLER

Love this

[Shim]

I hope I'm not too late:

[Kiske]

Originally Posted by Guff

Better light that bitch up with some red neon so they no you mean business!