follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Forced Induction

Forced Induction Turbo, Supercharger, Methanol, Nitrous


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-16-2015, 05:06 AM   #169
FRS Justin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Drives: 2013 Asphalt FRS
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 994
Thanks: 693
Thanked 695 Times in 417 Posts
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
So does Ethanol, when it vaporizes, as does gasoline.

But, that's not how a nitrous system works. Atmospheric air has about a 21% oxygen concentration. Nitrous Oxide, on the other hand, breaks down into 33% oxygen concentration.

Furthermore, when Nitrous Oxide decomposes, the reaction is exothermic. In other words, when (2)N2O decomposes into 2N2 + O2, it ADDS heat to the intake charge (technically already under compression in the cylinder, and igniting). You confuse spraying liquid N2O into the intake tract, which cools the intake charge from evaporation, the same way fuel injection does.

The reason N2O adds power, is because it displaces atmospheric air with a molecule of higher oxygen content, which can be readily broken down to O2, and then combusted with fuel.
Hey Mike we are talking about a dry shot of NOS, we will move on to Wetshot next week lol It really gets good then


I know your intelligent Im not trying to Imply anything about that. I also don't expect you to know everything about NOS either since its not used in your line of work
__________________
Instagram FT86PROJECT9S
Facebook FT86PROJECT9S
710whp
FRS Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2015, 06:44 AM   #170
CSG Mike
 
CSG Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 14,522
Thanks: 8,911
Thanked 14,166 Times in 6,828 Posts
Mentioned: 966 Post(s)
Tagged: 14 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FRS Justin View Post
Think about a 1000psi and -127 degree working together entering the cylinder at 900psi.
SMH
CSG Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CSG Mike For This Useful Post:
BRZoomTX (12-16-2015)
Old 12-16-2015, 06:47 AM   #171
FRS Justin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Drives: 2013 Asphalt FRS
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 994
Thanks: 693
Thanked 695 Times in 417 Posts
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
SMH
Are you saying its not coming out of the nozzle at 900psi lol


You really aren't man enough to admit your wrong....smh you even posted the facts I guess copy and paste caught up with you...
its ok have it your way 300hp stock bottom end N/A fa20s exist, stock rods can handle high boost and everything we have debated about is true you win


Here read this if you still disagree it has 900 psi at the nozzle call the guys and tell them they are crazy...
http://www.badasscars.com/index.cfm/...rod/prd288.htm


and explain to everyone here where the 1000 psi goes leaving the tank to the end of the nozzle. I bet its magic huh.... smh


I can't Barney this down any lower someone else is going have to give you a physics lesson on flow and volume not to mention thermodynamics, to think you questioned my knowledge...sad indeed


How can you even have input on a subject when you don't understand the theory behind it is beyond me. That screams troll. Your like the talk show host Jerry Springer who feels out the room to see what the audience is thinking then takes it to the guest on the show.


If you want to learn you have to be humble and like you told me "think outside the box" It's best you stick to driving and leave engines to other people. Hell you thought NOS was plumbed in before the MAF lol
__________________
Instagram FT86PROJECT9S
Facebook FT86PROJECT9S
710whp

Last edited by FRS Justin; 12-16-2015 at 08:22 AM.
FRS Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2015, 08:39 AM   #172
Draco-REX
Corner Junkie
 
Draco-REX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: 13 BRZ, 11 STI, 99 RS
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,908
Thanks: 129
Thanked 1,518 Times in 701 Posts
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FRS Justin View Post
Per Webster dictionary


Definition of fact
  1. 1 : something that really exists or has occurred <Space travel is now a fact.> EX. People running high boost have broken rods is now a fact
  2. 2 : a true piece of information <“I just know for a fact that she has a huge family to feed!” — Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows EX. I just know for a fact people have broken rods under high boost.









If you can't see it now I can't help you
The sky is blue, the grass is green. Should I start a thread about aggressive alignments causing tires to wear unevenly?

This thread has done nothing to better the community.
Draco-REX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2015, 08:55 AM   #173
Andew727
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: Scion FR-S
Location: Palm Harbor, Florida
Posts: 143
Thanks: 23
Thanked 44 Times in 35 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco-REX View Post
The sky is blue, the grass is green. Should I start a thread about aggressive alignments causing tires to wear unevenly?

This thread has done nothing to better the community.
how about we just keep a discussion going on problems people have heard from with a reliable source or a personal experience. i chimed in on this thread because i have experience i had a failure to share with everyone to help the next person save some money. i do not understand what everyones malicious intent is for?
Andew727 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Andew727 For This Useful Post:
FRS Justin (12-16-2015), totopo (12-16-2015)
Old 12-16-2015, 09:12 AM   #174
FRS Justin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Drives: 2013 Asphalt FRS
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 994
Thanks: 693
Thanked 695 Times in 417 Posts
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco-REX View Post
The sky is blue, the grass is green. Should I start a thread about aggressive alignments causing tires to wear unevenly?

This thread has done nothing to better the community.
You can if you want then people who don't have the knowledge you do on it can learn, but I'm sure that is a waste of your time.


People have taking this thread everywhere under the sun trying to prove something. Hell I am having a nitrous debate now which just blows me away. It was never made for the Type A Alpha males it was for the beginner who doesn't know. What is even worse is when they are wrong they keep coming back....


I'm not here to teach a bunch experts or so called experts anything, I'm here for the beginners.


P.S. Your first sentence was a fact......
__________________
Instagram FT86PROJECT9S
Facebook FT86PROJECT9S
710whp
FRS Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2015, 09:14 AM   #175
FRS Justin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Drives: 2013 Asphalt FRS
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 994
Thanks: 693
Thanked 695 Times in 417 Posts
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifle View Post
Spun a bearing on the Motor with a twin screw 700 miles after install. 150 miles after a new tune. Just saying. 7900 miles total. 12psi or so.
Oh damn sorry to here that
__________________
Instagram FT86PROJECT9S
Facebook FT86PROJECT9S
710whp
FRS Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2015, 09:24 AM   #176
xkalelx
Senior Member
 
xkalelx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Drives: 2013 BRZ black
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 394
Thanks: 265
Thanked 282 Times in 113 Posts
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)


Trying to explain numbers and physics to some people... Sheesh

By definition, Nitrous CAN NOT be FI. You are not compressing the cylinders with NO2. There may be 1000psi at the bottle but you are relieving that pressure into an open air stream that gets drawn into the cylinder at effectively 0psi. You would need a turbocharger or supercharger to COMPRESS the cylinder volume. The argument of effective pressure and chemical reactions has no part in this equation.

Strap a leaf blower on your throttle body, its got to build boost right? Wrong. It may flow 300cfm, but its not compressing air in the cylinders. Youll never see 1psi by doing so.

Here is a real world test to confirm this "theory" into fact. Install an analog vacuum/boost gauge on your nitrous equipped car. You will see tons of fluctuation in vacuum from 20-0in/hg but you will never build positive pressure on the boost side of the gauge.

As for the 300hp NA motor, where is Chris? @celek Heres a link to build that he currently working on. Its quite impressive. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63901

xkalelx is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to xkalelx For This Useful Post:
Arcade_West (02-09-2016), BRZoomTX (12-16-2015), Bykov (02-15-2016), celek (12-16-2015), clayrush (12-16-2015), CSG Mike (12-16-2015), Edelbrock LLC (12-16-2015), johan (12-16-2015), Slysdexia (12-16-2015)
Old 12-16-2015, 09:30 AM   #177
VirginiaBRZ
Senior Member
 
VirginiaBRZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Drives: 2013 Brz WRB
Location: nova
Posts: 129
Thanks: 37
Thanked 33 Times in 23 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifle View Post
Spun a bearing on the Motor with a twin screw 700 miles after install. 150 miles after a new tune. Just saying. 7900 miles total. 12psi or so.
wow that sucks..... are you planning on rebuilding?
VirginiaBRZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2015, 09:31 AM   #178
FRS Justin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Drives: 2013 Asphalt FRS
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 994
Thanks: 693
Thanked 695 Times in 417 Posts
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by xkalelx View Post


Trying to explain numbers and physics to some people... Sheesh

By definition, Nitrous CAN NOT be FI. You are not compressing the cylinders with NO2. There may be 1000psi at the bottle but you are relieving that pressure into an open air stream that gets drawn into the cylinder at effectively 0psi. You would need a turbocharger or supercharger to COMPRESS the cylinder volume. The argument of effective pressure and chemical reactions has no part in this equation.

Strap a leaf blower on your throttle body, its got to build boost right? Wrong. It may flow 300cfm, but its not compressing air in the cylinders. Youll never see 1psi by doing so.

Here is a real world test to confirm this "theory" into fact. Install an analog vacuum/boost gauge on your nitrous equipped car. You will see tons of fluctuation in vacuum from 20-0in/hg but you will never build positive pressure on the boost side of the gauge.

As for the 300hp NA motor, where is Chris? @celek Heres a link to build that he currently working on. Its quite impressive. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63901

Im not even going to argue with you smh
__________________
Instagram FT86PROJECT9S
Facebook FT86PROJECT9S
710whp
FRS Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2015, 09:44 AM   #179
Freeman
Senior Member
 
Freeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Drives: 2013 Ultramarine FR-S
Location: Liberty Lake
Posts: 1,209
Thanks: 1,978
Thanked 539 Times in 327 Posts
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by FRS Justin View Post
Im not even going to argue with you smh

Why not? You've argued with everyone else.
Freeman is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Freeman For This Useful Post:
clayrush (12-16-2015)
Old 12-16-2015, 09:48 AM   #180
FRS Justin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Drives: 2013 Asphalt FRS
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 994
Thanks: 693
Thanked 695 Times in 417 Posts
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
Why not? You've argued with everyone else.
Well if you can't even read the post to have a idea on what people are saying its a waste of time. A 300hp motor that's not even finished yet is the one another poster is talking about seeing on the dyno in 2013..Ya argue with someone like that..


Edit:


If you don't even know the definition of the word forced and you think it can only relates to something physical, no sense going down that rode


forced

(fɔːst)
adj1. done because of force; compulsory: forced labour.
2. false or unnatural: a forced smile.
3. due to an emergency or necessity: a forced landing.
4. (General Physics) physics caused by an external agency: a forced vibration; a forced draught.

forcedly adv ˈforcedness n
__________________
Instagram FT86PROJECT9S
Facebook FT86PROJECT9S
710whp

Last edited by FRS Justin; 12-16-2015 at 10:01 AM.
FRS Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2015, 10:00 AM   #181
xkalelx
Senior Member
 
xkalelx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Drives: 2013 BRZ black
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 394
Thanks: 265
Thanked 282 Times in 113 Posts
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FRS Justin View Post
Edelbrock Performance Nitrous Systems Support



HOW DOES NITROUS OXIDE WORK?
As stated before, nitrous oxide is an oxidizer. An oxidizer supports combustion by supplying additional oxygen. Initially, the nitrous doesn't help the process. This is because as long as the one oxygen molecule is bonded to the two nitrogen molecules, the oxygen isn't free to aid combustion at all. Only after they've been exposed to the heat of the combustion process will the chemical bond be broken (the bond breaks around 570 degrees), allowing the free oxygen molecule to then contribute to the combustion process. Additional fuel is added along with the nitrous to maintain a stoichiometric air/fuel ratio. The end result is more horsepower being created pretty much the same way a blower or turbocharger does.
Words have meaning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRS Justin View Post
You can if you want then people who don't have the knowledge you do on it can learn, but I'm sure that is a waste of your time.


People have taking this thread everywhere under the sun trying to prove something. Hell I am having a nitrous debate now which just blows me away. It was never made for the Type A Alpha males it was for the beginner who doesn't know. What is even worse is when they are wrong they keep coming back....


I'm not here to teach a bunch experts or so called experts anything, I'm here for the beginners.


P.S. Your first sentence was a fact......
Your propagation of misinformation is astounding and cancerous. There are at least 10 people here beating their heads against the wall in disagreement with your statements. I would take that as a sign that you missed something.
xkalelx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2015, 10:15 AM   #182
celek
Resident Gear Head
 
celek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Drives: 2013 BRZ
Location: Ohio
Posts: 734
Thanks: 264
Thanked 914 Times in 339 Posts
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by xkalelx View Post


Trying to explain numbers and physics to some people... Sheesh

By definition, Nitrous CAN NOT be FI. You are not compressing the cylinders with NO2. There may be 1000psi at the bottle but you are relieving that pressure into an open air stream that gets drawn into the cylinder at effectively 0psi. You would need a turbocharger or supercharger to COMPRESS the cylinder volume. The argument of effective pressure and chemical reactions has no part in this equation.

Strap a leaf blower on your throttle body, its got to build boost right? Wrong. It may flow 300cfm, but its not compressing air in the cylinders. Youll never see 1psi by doing so.

Here is a real world test to confirm this "theory" into fact. Install an analog vacuum/boost gauge on your nitrous equipped car. You will see tons of fluctuation in vacuum from 20-0in/hg but you will never build positive pressure on the boost side of the gauge.

As for the 300hp NA motor, where is Chris? @celek Heres a link to build that he currently working on. Its quite impressive. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63901

I read the first page of this thread this morning then closed my browser, I do not feel like arguing today.

As for NOS the point of it is a more oxygen enriched environment using N2O and cleaner Oxygen with more fuel makes more power. In a perfect world pure oxygen could be used and make tons of power but also explode. verses the air in our atmosphere which contains the following compounds that make less power under combustion.
Nitrogen -- N2 -- 78.084%
Oxygen -- O2 -- 20.9476%
Argon -- Ar -- 0.934%
Carbon Dioxide -- CO2 -- 0.0314%
Neon -- Ne -- 0.001818%
Methane -- CH4 -- 0.0002%
Helium -- He -- 0.000524%
Krypton -- Kr -- 0.000114%
Hydrogen -- H2 -- 0.00005%
Xenon -- Xe -- 0.0000087%
Ozone -- O3 -- 0.000007%
Nitrogen Dioxide -- NO2 -- 0.000002%
Iodine -- I2 -- 0.000001%
Carbon Monoxide -- CO -- trace
Ammonia -- NH3 -- trace
With N2O you have pure Nitrogen and Oxygen in a stable form so 33.3333333333% oxygen vs 20% in our atmosphere resulting in needing more fuel for combustion making more power
__________________
celek is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to celek For This Useful Post:
CSG Mike (12-16-2015), FRS Justin (12-16-2015)
 
Reply

Tags
kill brain cells, not facts

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FlexFuel and Facts Shiv@Openflash Software Tuning 69 10-16-2019 01:08 PM
Anyone Else? Hearters Blowing when off. Kiske Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB 7 04-09-2014 05:22 PM
How cold is your a/c blowing? jermyzy Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB 68 08-18-2013 03:29 PM
Supra Blowing Up radroach Off-Topic Lounge [WARNING: NO POLITICS] 2 07-21-2013 09:14 PM
Facts you may or may not know about your GT86/BRZ/FR-s FiRStsc10n Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 41 07-09-2013 03:05 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.