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FR-S / BRZ vs.... Area to discuss the FR-S/BRZ against its competitors [NO STREET RACING]


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Old 06-19-2019, 09:36 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Buteo View Post
The ‘16 GT4 weighs in at 2955 and the 600LT at 2,989.

66lbs isn’t much. A battery and wheels and your decently close for 1/4 price without a carbon tub.

I’d agree the power in the 600 can mask its weight to feel even lighter, but I’d say a gt4 is quite fun to throw around- It rotates well and outperforms it’s HP rating. Much like the BRZ.
A bit of clarification. That 2955 GT4 is not with a full tank, with every lightweight option, and is not representative of the average GT4 out there, which is closer to 3130 with a full tank. On the other hand, the 2989, or more often published "sub 3000" number quoted for the 600LT is without all the extra weight saving measures, and is a 100% accurate real world number. You can trim a 600LT to be as low as 2914 lbs with a full tank.

The GT4 punches, unfortunately, below it's price point, whereas the 600LT punches above its price point. The GT4 is heavily hampered by artificial factory limitations, as well as being a parts bin car.

Case in point, with equal tire compounds, a 600LT, or 570S will easily out-corner a GT4, even though the actual tire sizes are significantly smaller. Did you know the two mclarens use a 225 width front to generate their performance numbers? Now, granted, this is a totally unfair comparison, as the McLaren is nearly double the price of the GT4.

How much seat time do you have in the 600LT and GT4?


The new GT4 is even heavier than the outgoing. That's very disappointing, since safety standards haven't changed between the two generations.
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Old 06-19-2019, 09:51 PM   #44
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A bit of clarification. That 2955 GT4 is not with a full tank, with every lightweight option, and is not representative of the average GT4 out there, which is closer to 3130 with a full tank. On the other hand, the 2989, or more often published "sub 3000" number quoted for the 600LT is without all the extra weight saving measures, and is a 100% accurate real world number. You can trim a 600LT to be as low as 2914 lbs with a full tank.

The GT4 punches, unfortunately, below it's price point, whereas the 600LT punches above its price point. The GT4 is heavily hampered by artificial factory limitations, as well as being a parts bin car.

Case in point, with equal tire compounds, a 600LT, or 570S will easily out-corner a GT4, even though the actual tire sizes are significantly smaller. Did you know the two mclarens use a 225 width front to generate their performance numbers? Now, granted, this is a totally unfair comparison, as the McLaren is nearly double the price of the GT4.

How much seat time do you have in the 600LT and GT4?


The new GT4 is even heavier than the outgoing. That's very disappointing, since safety standards haven't changed between the two generations.
Quite a bit of time in the gt4. Ive got the track record for a GT4 on street tires at High plains Raceway, 1:58. On a car with all the lightweight boxes ticked. Probably over 150 laps in a 2 years or so.

Never had the opportunity to drive the 600 on track. Have had one on a spirited run for about 20mins. The car is obviously much much quicker and a performer.

I’m not trying argue that a gt4 will outperform a a 600, but I’d argue a gt4 for a street car isn’t a fat pig, especially for its price point. And parts bin or not punch above it’s weight. The times I’ve posted around here say so. Spent some time in a 570 as well.



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Old 06-19-2019, 11:10 PM   #45
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All Caymans and Boxsters have their balls sliced off so as to not threaten the 911 market. Even the GT4 is a gelding. In a GT4 or 600LT, you look like a douchbag. You'll attract all the **** you want but most women are going to laugh. In a Cayman or Boxster, you look like a mid-life crisis. It's the same in a 911. Meanwhile, you can go 10ish seconds faster at Laguna Seca in a used Indy Light, which also costs less and comes with spares.

But you can put a set of slick tires and all your tools in the back of a twin, drive to the track, run all day, and then drive back home.
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:35 PM   #46
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All Caymans and Boxsters have their balls sliced off so as to not threaten the 911 market. Even the GT4 is a gelding. In a GT4 or 600LT, you look like a douchbag. You'll attract all the **** you want but most women are going to laugh. In a Cayman or Boxster, you look like a mid-life crisis. It's the same in a 911. Meanwhile, you can go 10ish seconds faster at Laguna Seca in a used Indy Light, which also costs less and comes with spares.

But you can put a set of slick tires and all your tools in the back of a twin, drive to the track, run all day, and then drive back home.
my wife would agree! But I’d argue that I don’t (and you shouldn’t) buy cars based on what others think of you. If you are a car guy that loves driving, limiting yourself to stereotypes regarding makes/models only limits your experiences and the joy of driving.

And I know plenty of guys that bring a set of slicks/tools for their GT3/GT4/mclaren to track days. The Rocky Mountain PCA has some very active track days. Will be out this weekend.
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:19 AM   #47
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If you want a real Porsche sports car, buy a vintage 930 turbo. Those were the days before safety regulations ruined sports cars and Porsche started to kiss the butts of rich people who can't drive.
Most people nowadays don't realize how much of driving is done by electronics until they step into per 80s sports car. Think you can handle 600bhp, you can't even handle 150bhp without that ECU nanny
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:25 AM   #48
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In a GT4 or 600LT, you look like a douchbag. You'll attract all the **** you want but most women are going to laugh. In a Cayman or Boxster, you look like a mid-life crisis. It's the same in a 911. [...]

But you can put a set of slick tires and all your tools in the back of a twin, drive to the track, run all day, and then drive back home.
Ehh, you could argue that in a twin you can look like a racerboi. Or at least I do. But then again I spend my time browsing the “appearance” section of ft86speedfactory so... not wrong

Pretty much every sportscar can have a negative connotation. Hell, I saw a guy leave the grocery store yesterday. Strong AF but definitely heavy. Bald. Wearing a Go Army shirt that was deliberately a size small. Oakley’s. Thought “I bet this guy drives a mustang”... Dude rolls by in an orange GT. Classic rock blasting. We all match a stereotype of car lover. Just pick the one that feels least like a lie and roll with it!


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If you want a real Porsche sports car, buy a vintage 930 turbo. Those were the days before safety regulations ruined sports cars and Porsche started to kiss the butts of rich people who can't drive.
Most people nowadays don't realize how much of driving is done by electronics until they step into per 80s sports car. Think you can handle 600bhp, you can't even handle 150bhp without that ECU nanny

Nothing in the car world annoys me as much as the explosion in Air cooled prices making them unreasonable/unobtainable. 30k-60k for lesser models, and cars you don’t even want to daily? Heart says yes, brain says “yeah right”
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:29 AM   #49
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Oh, the 86 is definitely a midlife crisis car. The cheapness makes it less douchey.
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Old 06-20-2019, 11:19 AM   #50
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Oh, the 86 is definitely a midlife crisis car. The cheapness makes it less douchey.
Ahh fair. I'm in a different age bracket, closer to the "Monster can, snap back and vape pen" kind of douche. a youngish adult professional, I'd argue, looks a little less pecocky in a P car than, say... a BRZ on rotiforms... (looks around uncomfortably)

I rock it though. Just gotta dress and behave in a way that says "I am actually a functional adult and not a manchild, I just like fun"
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Old 06-20-2019, 11:36 AM   #51
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Oh, the 86 is definitely a midlife crisis car. The cheapness makes it less douchey.
Honestly, I've never gotten the reason why people thinking someone over 40 buying a sports car is a "midlife crisis". More than likely its a "return to life" car.

My case for example, before we had little hawks in the nest, I drove muscle cars, sports cars and motorcycles. There was a 20 year period where my daily driver was the "family car" (actually two Chevy Astro vans). Then, once I no longer needed that space, I went back to my old habits.

There was no crisis, it was just time to have some fun. What, was I supposed to continue to drive vans and SUVs the rest of my life because it was the practical thing to do for a while?
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Old 06-20-2019, 11:49 AM   #52
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Quote:
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The current GT4 is an massive push pig designed to make their owners feel like heros when "driving hard", and I don't expect that to change with the 718 GT4.
A lot of people complaining about the understeering nature of the original GT4 don't know that these cars come with adjustable swaybars from the factory and that simply changing the setting on the front bar will fix the problem.
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Old 06-20-2019, 12:05 PM   #53
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Honestly, I've never gotten the reason why people thinking someone over 40 buying a sports car is a "midlife crisis". More than likely its a "return to life" car.

I've always been puzzled by the 'midlife crisis' perception as well. I've liked sports cars ever since I was a kid. Unless you're born into money or have a great job in your early twenties, you can't really afford a more expensive sports car until a bit later in life or choose to prioritize a car over buying a home or starting a family. When I see someone under 30 driving a car that costs $60k-$100k, I wonder how they afford that as well as rent. If I buy a nice sports car, it'll only be because I can finally afford something I've wanted/liked for decades.

Nowadays, looking at the Teslas, Audi's, Porsches, BMW's all around me, I've realized that my sticker shock 'gauge' is still stuck at the same place it was when I was in my 20's. People are daily driving cars (especially SUVs) that cost 2x, 3x more than the BRZ all around.

I think the new GT4 looks great. I'd love to have one. Not to show off in, but because I appreciate the aesthetics and engineering of nice cars. I'd rather drive on empty streets with no one to see me rather than cruise around to get gawked at. If I could afford it, I'd love to own an exotic even I lived in the middle of nowhere. In fact, that'd be preferable to driving amongst people. It's no different than buying some other object that you like, that's based more on emotion than need/practicality.

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Old 06-20-2019, 12:22 PM   #54
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I really can't fathom how anyone would consider a GT4 driver a douche. If there's evidence that they don't just cruise around in it, then I don't see the problem. If you buy it to have fun at the track there's nothing fake about that.
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Old 06-20-2019, 01:24 PM   #55
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If you buy your cars based on what you feel others may think about you driving it, you got daddy issues.

Buy and drive whatever the hell you want. The wheel is the best thing invented.
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Old 06-20-2019, 01:33 PM   #56
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A base car can blend in somewhat. A car with all the bling desperately screams look at me, ladies. Even if the message is unintended, people still receive it. This is why Miata is always the answer. Nobody looks at a guy in a Miata and says, "He's got something to prove."

You can buy a car for yourself, of course, but it's still an issue. I mean, a lot of us look at Mustang GT drivers and LOL.
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