P0016 on a 60k mile car

[kinghurl]

You don't have to buy another one. Just know it can take 5K miles to fix itself. Apparently the learning values are SLOW to update. Car will be slightly down on performance and will likely throw a cel, but mechanically will be OK. The cam gear replacements complete your update. I hope the new gears are more likely to resist this issue.

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[kinghurl]

If you swapped OCV and sensors and still got code then gears are issue.

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[TheStig85]

I still find this unbelievable... But I see other people confirming what you're saying on here: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...=116309&page=3

But they're saying the ECM needs to be replaced as it can't unlearn values. Can anyone else chime in on this?

@Ultramaroon @rusty959 @steve99

[Ultramaroon]

I recommend this $70 device and using its proprietary application that I demonstrated here. A $5 in-app purchase gets you the extended monitors. I'm not aware of any other real-time monitor but hope to eventually see it cracked for OpenPort II.

Watching the valve timing slew will give you peace of mind as you cross your fingers and wait for the ECU to re-learn whatever offset it needs. Maybe the offset is represented by one of the mystery values I am logging here. That would be cool.

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

If anyone has one of these OBDLink doohickeys, their software can now monitor vvt data real time.




I put together this dashboard with all the parameters that I figured were significant. A couple, like the target and actual angles, are intuitive but I don't know what the others mean. There are a couple times in this clip where the actual value seems to lead the target. I think that's aliasing due to the low sample rate. ...I think.

[TheStig85]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I recommend this $70 device and using its proprietary application that I demonstrated here. A $5 in-app purchase gets you the extended monitors. I'm not aware of any other real-time monitor but hope to eventually see it cracked for OpenPort II.

Watching the valve timing slew will give you peace of mind as you cross your fingers and wait for the ECU to re-learn whatever offset it needs. Maybe the offset is represented by one of the mystery values I am logging here. That would be cool.

I'm guessing Torque Pro can't monitor it real-time?

Also, I just recently picked up TechStream. Could that do the same?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

A $5 in-app purchase gets you the extended monitors.

It's $9.99 now, at least on android.

My OFT reads some VVT values but it looks like it combines the banks into an Intake or Exhaust value, my intake sensor was going haywire and I thought it was shot, bought the scanner+app add-on and that is showing me no problems. I never really had a CEL about it though.

[TheStig85]

Note: My car never had a rough idle or anything. Always ran smooth. The CEL has been more an eye sore on my dash than anything else, and the limp mode that comes with it.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by TheStig85

I'm guessing Torque Pro can't monitor it real-time?

Also, I just recently picked up TechStream. Could that do the same?

I haven't tried monitoring with techstream. Big ol' laptop in the passenger seat. I could hook up and look but not until next week.

With my google fu, torque pro doesn't look promising.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by TheStig85

I still find this unbelievable... But I see other people confirming what you're saying on here: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...=116309&page=3

But they're saying the ECM needs to be replaced as it can't unlearn values. Can anyone else chime in on this?

@Ultramaroon @rusty959 @steve99

I dont believe the rumour the ecu cannot unlearn values, however it certianly possible the ecu inputs or output channels that control the cam oil control vavles or the sensor input channels could go faulty and hence ecu needs replacenent.

The reason i dont believe the burn in values bit is ive swapowed a dozzen or more ecu used ecu between auto manual usa australian cars different years models and they all work fine after being reflashed with correct ecu calibration

[kinghurl]

It's not that it cannot learn. It's just a slow process. Until then you get cel and limp mode as the ecu sets the gears to the middle of their range as a default safe mode. So sometimes car will feel fine, other times it you'll get passed by the old dude in the walker. Swapping in a newer/different ecm supports this as they then likely didn't come from cars that had the error. I don't fully understand it, but having personally experienced it, I understand why changing ecu is a suggested step in all dealer repair manuals. Sucks, but there we are....

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[EigenGuy]

Final (hopefully) update:
Thank you Rusty for the guidance. I disassembled the timing chains again and figured out the issue. Apparently, the early 2013 model exhaust sprockets did not have the small triangle indicator stamped on the front to help align the drivers side sprockets during assembly. I was able to figure out the proper alignment and assembled everything were it needed to be. Once complete, I fired up the car and still had the same codes. I ordered and installed another (used) ECM and the codes have not returned after about 70 miles. To me, this confirms a ECM replacement is actually necessary even after solving the mechanical defect. For those considering doing this job yourself, it is not for the faint of heart. It required about 30 hours of work and significant studying time, not to mention a fair amount of dough for parts, fluids, and specialty tools.

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Meh. It doesn't.

My thought process here is this: force equals pressure times area. What if JDL's uel design is the perfect length to create a resonant PRESSURE wave FORCING the surface AREA of the exhaust valve open? This would stress the valve spring and therefore the variable valve timing components pushing the retention plate out of it's peened-in spot. Again, just a hypothesis based solely on a lot of reports of folks throwing these codes right after installing the UEL headers.

[alxtheoreo]

Originally Posted by EigenGuy

Final (hopefully) update:
Thank you Rusty for the guidance. I disassembled the timing chains again and figured out the issue. Apparently, the early 2013 model exhaust sprockets did not have the small triangle indicator stamped on the front to help align the drivers side sprockets during assembly. I was able to figure out the proper alignment and assembled everything were it needed to be. Once complete, I fired up the car and still had the same codes. I ordered and installed another (used) ECM and the codes have not returned after about 70 miles. To me, this confirms a ECM replacement is actually necessary even after solving the mechanical defect. For those considering doing this job yourself, it is not for the faint of heart. It required about 30 hours of work and significant studying time, not to mention a fair amount of dough for parts, fluids, and specialty tools.




My thought process here is this: force equals pressure times area. What if JDL's uel design is the perfect length to create a resonant PRESSURE wave FORCING the surface AREA of the exhaust valve open? This would stress the valve spring and therefore the variable valve timing components pushing the retention plate out of it's peened-in spot. Again, just a hypothesis based solely on a lot of reports of folks throwing these codes right after installing the UEL headers.

Good hypothesis.

I wonder if a tune (dyno or OFT) has any impact on this failure? I know some local guys & some local shops reported this failure after they were tuned, or during the process of getting a dyno tune.

[TheStig85]

Okay, I have no idea how to use TechStream, but after tinkering for a few minutes I found some info. Does anything here look off?

[ermax]

Is the engine cold or something? The target angle is 0.