Should I Trade In My Si?

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by ScoobsMcGee

They floor it at 4000 rpm expecting to be in the torque dip and, well... you know.

Only mustang's seek out crowds.

[GrantedTaken]

So, did you test drive one?

[JR]

To be continued

[thill]

I think you owe it to yourself to drive a bunch of cars and do your home work:
BRZ
GTI
Mustang
Camaro
Focus ST
Miata

Also don't rule out a barely used certified vehicle as you can save a lot of money (usually).

The biggest surprise for me was the Camaro 1LE. It was one of the best handling cars I have driven and the NA V8 is glorious. The car drives lighter than it is. I needed a functional backseat and didn't love the sight lines.

Mustang was meh for me. I thought the RS I ended up with was much more fun to drive.

I love the BRZ but you owe it to yourself to drive some other cars.

Personally I don't advocate keeping the Civic if you want a drivers car. You will spend thousands on mods and it still likely will come up short.

[JR]

So guys and gals, I went ahead and purchased a 2017 Dark Gray Metallic BRZ with the performance package and I must say, the BRZ is a completely different vehicle compared to the Si.

[NCtoBRZ]

Originally Posted by JR

So guys and gals, I went ahead and purchased a 2017 Dark Gray Metallic BRZ with the performance package and I must say, the BRZ is a completely different vehicle compared to the Si.

Quite different indeed... the BRZ is a RWD sports car and the Civic is a FWD econobox. Don’t get me wrong, my daily is a 2017 Civic Hatch and it’s a well built car that is decently fun, but it is by no means a sports car.

[Cal3000]

The civic is actually a better handling car than the Twins . It has been outperforming the Twins at SCCA autox events. Better handling, more torque, more room. I would have kept the civic.

[NCtoBRZ]

Originally Posted by Cal3000

The civic is actually a better handling car than the Twins . It has been outperforming the Twins at SCCA autox events. Better handling, more torque, more room. I would have kept the civic.

There are many factors that will affect the outcome of those autox events such as driver skill (the Civic is easier to drive), tires (if on stock tires, the BRZ has little grip... except the tS) and the layout of the course. Regardless of which wins more often in autox events, the BRZ undoubtedly is more engaging and fun to drive and has better steering and handling feel than the Civic. I think JR made a good decision

[JR]

Originally Posted by Cal3000

The civic is actually a better handling car than the Twins . It has been outperforming the Twins at SCCA autox events. Better handling, more torque, more room. I would have kept the civic.

I like the weight of the steering in the Civic more, but the BRZ responds a little better to your steering inputs. Honda did a good job with the steering in the Si.

In terms of power, the Si feels quicker due to the turbo, no torque dip and by having more torque. The BRZ actually has pretty good low end torque, up until 4k. After that, you hit the dip and it doesn't really recover from that, even in the upper rpm. This could be just with the 17 and up model years, but I was suprised at how the BRZ doesn't pull that hard in the upper rpm, despite it being a "high revving" engine. It kinda puts you in a difficult position because you feel more torque in the lower rpm, so downshifting does not equal passing someone quicker than when you're in a higher gear.

The seating position is way better in the BRZ and a physical parking lever is nice to have. The exhaust and intake sounds better in the BRZ and the fuel economy is good as long as you control yourself.

As others have mentioned, the BRZ is an actual sports car and you can feel it with how it is setup. The Civic Si is a "sporty" car and would be a better vehicle for commuting for most people. Both are good vehicles, it just comes down to what you are looking for.

[thill]

Congrats, what sets the BRZ apart is the near perfect weight distribution, very low center of gravity, perfect seating position, really good seats and simple but very driver focused interior. And RWD

The stock tires on a BRZ/FR-S have always been the more limiting factor for auto-x and track. A set of gripper tires transforms the car. I don't understand why the performance package doesn't have Pilot Super Sports??

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Cal3000

The civic is actually a better handling car than the Twins . It has been outperforming the Twins at SCCA autox events. Better handling, more torque, more room. I would have kept the civic.

lolwut

Maybe at locals but with equivalent prep levels and driving talent an Si is not outperforming an 86 pitting GS vs DS, sure the Type-R can beat it but it's also up 100 hersepers. They're in the same class for a reason, put them on a course that doesn't let the Type-R stretch it's legs (like the test below) and it's a close match between those two, an Si only stands a chance with a driver advantage or a course advantage (allow the turbo torque to stretch it's legs from slower digs where the FRZ fails, sweepers where the 8" wheels can give the Civic the grip it needs to keep the speeds as high or higher since it's not much heavier than the 86 on 7" wheels, and limit transitions where the FRZ shines).

https://apexjunky.com/2017/10/ultima...crows-landing/

Nats results are skewered because rain so I'm throwing out the times, but there's only one Si in the trophies in GS and 6 FRZ's in the trophies for DS. Flipping through every national tour event this year there is only one instance where an Si was faster than an FR-S or BRZ and that was Packwood by about 0.1s total over two days. The rest of the events it's not even close with the fast DS 86's putting half a second or more each day on GS regardless of which car leads GS that event, not just the Si.

The FRZ may be outgunned in DS on most courses against the Civic Type-R, Focus RS, Mitsubishi Evo, Subaru WRX/STI, & Camaro, but if it moved down to GS it would decimate the Si, GTI, Focus ST, and Genesis that currently make up that class on everything but the courses that are lame as fuck point and shoot corvette club events where the FRZ again falls on it's face from a low speed dig compared to the turbo torque of the hot hatches.

It doesn't help the comparison that drivers who want to be competitive have begun abandoning the 86 in DS moving on to other cars and classes while people who want to run the other cars have moved into DS, the Si is on the upswing in GS so it won't be surprising next year when nationally speaking the Si in GS is showing stronger than the FRZ in CS/DS. That sure as hell doesn't mean it's a slower car though.

[Yoshoobaroo]

FWIW, my BRZ with 215 hankook V12s is quicker (barely but it is ) than a local Si with wide ass RS4s on it.

[SuperTom]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

FWIW, my BRZ with 215 hankook V12s is quicker (barely but it is ) than a local Si with wide ass RS4s on it.

That's good to hear that's the setup I have on mine stock size hankooks v12's on lightweight konig hypergrams

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by SuperTom

That's good to hear that's the setup I have on mine stock size hankooks v12's on lightweight konig hypergrams

Skinny tires on light wheels is the way to go on this car IMO.