follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Software Tuning

Software Tuning Discuss all software tuning topics.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-04-2014, 08:39 AM   #43
Dezoris
Senior Member
 
Dezoris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: FR-S
Location: IL
Posts: 2,857
Thanks: 519
Thanked 2,997 Times in 1,095 Posts
Mentioned: 159 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
i want to make this clear the tuning introduced this harsh sound. it was never there before and it can be heard windows up, down on the street and on the dyno.
__________________
Dezoris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2014, 08:50 AM   #44
Ralph Spoilsport
Senior Member
 
Ralph Spoilsport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Drives: 2013 BRZ, WRB
Location: Galt's Gulch, NH
Posts: 225
Thanks: 107
Thanked 207 Times in 93 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
Sorry, do you have a source on this? I was under the impression that the FA20 used conventional phasers (advance and retard chambers using hydraulic pressure). What you are describing sounds a lot like the cam-torque activated system found in Ford and Jaguar products and originally developed by Borg Warner.

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/bo...nes-32246.html

Suggestive, but not definitive.
Ralph Spoilsport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2014, 09:11 AM   #45
DJCarbine
Thupercharged
 
DJCarbine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Drives: 2013 FR-S
Location: La Grange Park, IL.
Posts: 1,501
Thanks: 116
Thanked 751 Times in 439 Posts
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Spoilsport View Post
Found this, its got some more technical explainations

http://www.purcellperformance.com/Te...13%20FR-S).pdf

Specifically this passage

Quote:
(b) Variable Valve Timing Control
(1) A variable valve timing mechanism is used for the camshaft timing intake gear assemblies and
the camshaft timing exhaust gear assemblies. It continuously alters the camshaft phase and
improves torque and fuel efficiency by enabling optimal valve timing according to the vehicle's
driving or running state.
(2) In addition to advanced and retarded oil passages inside the camshaft timing gear assembly, a detent oil passage has been installed, making intermediate locking possible.
(3) A thin cam timing oil control valve assembly has been installed from the front surface side of
the timing chain cover to make the variable valve timing mechanism more compact.
(4) The cam timing oil control valve assembly operates by signals from the ECM, controlling the
position of the spool valve and supplying engine oil to the advance hydraulic chamber and
retard hydraulic chamber of the camshaft timing gear assembly.
Sounds like its still hydraulically controlled with the addition of a detent for "locking"

There is actually a lot of good info in there if it is indeed accurate
__________________
2013 FRS
Vortech V3 11psi
Revworks UEL - PLM Overpipe - MOTIV catted frontpipe - Invidia Q300
2019 Series.Grey STI - Stage1+ SF
DJCarbine is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DJCarbine For This Useful Post:
Dezoris (03-04-2014), Ralph Spoilsport (03-04-2014)
Old 03-04-2014, 09:14 AM   #46
regal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: Scion FR-S/Toyota Yaris
Location: PA
Posts: 1,438
Thanks: 21
Thanked 316 Times in 232 Posts
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezoris View Post
i want to make this clear the tuning introduced this harsh sound. it was never there before and it can be heard windows up, down on the street and on the dyno.


So was this a new tune or been there since you've been voteced?


Maybe your sound is different but getting the flow with the real 0W20's (redline is a 5w30 advertised as a 0w30) may be worth a try.
__________________
2013 FRS Argento Silver 6MT

Mods:
Clear fender side lights
Tactrix ZA1JB01C 2014 Calib
regal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2014, 09:16 AM   #47
s2d4
Senior Member
 
s2d4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Drives: R32 GTR, AW11 MR2 SC, GTS86 R
Location: OZ
Posts: 2,615
Thanks: 603
Thanked 1,223 Times in 708 Posts
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezoris View Post
i want to make this clear the tuning introduced this harsh sound. it was never there before and it can be heard windows up, down on the street and on the dyno.
You are incredibly stubborn.
__________________
s2d4 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to s2d4 For This Useful Post:
jamesm (03-04-2014), wparsons (03-04-2014)
Old 03-04-2014, 09:24 AM   #48
Element Tuning
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: Hydra EMS Powered FRS Raven Black
Location: Maryland
Posts: 839
Thanks: 54
Thanked 1,021 Times in 365 Posts
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
The intake resonance or I like to call it "whale" I like and it comes from more overlap which I'm sure isn't tuned in by the oem due to emissions and fuel economy. It's gives a lifeless motor character!

So the "marbles" or "dieseling" sound is from a sudden drop in DI pressure as the intake cam is advanced aggressively and this can be data logged. It was suttle on my personal car and could be tuned out. The three lobe cam driven high pressure pump isn't ideal and it struggles to hold high DI pressures. On a client's car recently I couldn't tune out the pressure dip completely when the intake cam advanced agressively no matter how I phased the DI pump's dump valve, set the PID, and in the end I just castrated the tune until it had the awful torque dip again. Its the pressure drop and rise inside the DI pump that causes the noise as it's all happening around 1500-2000 psi (serious pressure waves).

This client suspected all along his DI pump was defective and he did have it replaced under warranty recently. . The weather has been so bad here we haven't had a chance to test how the new pump reacts with the more aggressive tuning but I will try an update.

Again one noise is normal and the other isn't. If one customer has the same tune as another but one person has a less than ideal DI it will make the noise on one and not the other. Can you say the tune caused the noise, yes, but its only because your car sucks and the other person's doesn't
Element Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Element Tuning For This Useful Post:
Dezoris (03-04-2014), Ralph Spoilsport (03-04-2014), TofuJoe (08-28-2016), Wepeel (03-04-2014), wparsons (03-04-2014)
Old 03-04-2014, 09:45 AM   #49
Dezoris
Senior Member
 
Dezoris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: FR-S
Location: IL
Posts: 2,857
Thanks: 519
Thanked 2,997 Times in 1,095 Posts
Mentioned: 159 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by s2d4 View Post
You are incredibly stubborn.
I am not 20 years old anymore. With all of the issues this platform has seen with tuners trying to make a quick buck, I am done just taking peoples word for it.
__________________
Dezoris is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dezoris For This Useful Post:
forwallblakmail (03-11-2014), forzajuve (03-12-2014)
Old 03-04-2014, 09:50 AM   #50
Dezoris
Senior Member
 
Dezoris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: FR-S
Location: IL
Posts: 2,857
Thanks: 519
Thanked 2,997 Times in 1,095 Posts
Mentioned: 159 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Element Tuning View Post

Again one noise is normal and the other isn't. If one customer has the same tune as another but one person has a less than ideal DI it will make the noise on one and not the other. Can you say the tune caused the noise, yes, but its only because your car sucks and the other person's doesn't

This is exactly what I want to get at in this thread, someone who has some actual information about the mechanical ramifications of the aggressive tuning of the VVT.

Id really like to know if its the pump when your customer tries again can you follow up on this?

Personally I am not about to invest in a new DI pump to test that theory when I am sure the tuning could be "castrated" temporarily to eliminate the issue.
__________________
Dezoris is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Dezoris For This Useful Post:
Element Tuning (03-04-2014)
Old 03-04-2014, 10:08 AM   #51
DJCarbine
Thupercharged
 
DJCarbine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Drives: 2013 FR-S
Location: La Grange Park, IL.
Posts: 1,501
Thanks: 116
Thanked 751 Times in 439 Posts
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I need to try and get some audio of my noise.

It sounds like someone drilled an 1/8th inch hole in the header and its just ticking away under moderate/heavy load around 3-4Krpm. Above that I can't hear crap over my exhaust
__________________
2013 FRS
Vortech V3 11psi
Revworks UEL - PLM Overpipe - MOTIV catted frontpipe - Invidia Q300
2019 Series.Grey STI - Stage1+ SF
DJCarbine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2014, 10:12 AM   #52
s2d4
Senior Member
 
s2d4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Drives: R32 GTR, AW11 MR2 SC, GTS86 R
Location: OZ
Posts: 2,615
Thanks: 603
Thanked 1,223 Times in 708 Posts
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezoris View Post
I am not 20 years old anymore. With all of the issues this platform has seen with tuners trying to make a quick buck, I am done just taking peoples word for it.
I am not 20 years old any more either but I certainly do not put blinkers on and choose what I want to hear, stating "This is an issue" with nothing of reference but your own ears and emotions.
Just as well arghx7/skullworks/element tuning all had valid info, glad you picked one that was to your liking.
However, not entirely sure if his DI/PI ratio would be some what similar to ours due to his setup.
s2d4 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to s2d4 For This Useful Post:
DAEMANO (03-04-2014)
Old 03-04-2014, 10:12 AM   #53
Dezoris
Senior Member
 
Dezoris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: FR-S
Location: IL
Posts: 2,857
Thanks: 519
Thanked 2,997 Times in 1,095 Posts
Mentioned: 159 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJCarbine View Post
I need to try and get some audio of my noise.

It sounds like someone drilled an 1/8th inch hole in the header and its just ticking away under moderate/heavy load around 3-4Krpm. Above that I can't hear crap over my exhaust
I pulled almost every dyno on the internet that was tuned. most have loud exhausts
very hard to hear anything. be curious to see what you find.
__________________
Dezoris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2014, 10:14 AM   #54
Luckrider
My Other Ride's a Jeep
 
Luckrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Drives: 2013 BRZ Limited
Location: United States
Posts: 893
Thanks: 431
Thanked 253 Times in 198 Posts
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJCarbine View Post
I need to try and get some audio of my noise.

It sounds like someone drilled an 1/8th inch hole in the header and its just ticking away under moderate/heavy load around 3-4Krpm. Above that I can't hear crap over my exhaust
That sounds nothing like the noise I am thinking of. I will see if I can get a clip of mine in say 3rd ear where it is loudest. The noise is louder with greater load and like others have mentioned, it sounds like exhaust rasp.
Luckrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2014, 10:58 AM   #55
DJCarbine
Thupercharged
 
DJCarbine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Drives: 2013 FR-S
Location: La Grange Park, IL.
Posts: 1,501
Thanks: 116
Thanked 751 Times in 439 Posts
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckrider View Post
That sounds nothing like the noise I am thinking of. I will see if I can get a clip of mine in say 3rd ear where it is loudest. The noise is louder with greater load and like others have mentioned, it sounds like exhaust rasp.
Do you have a stock header?

I'm thinking its more pronounced with an aftermarket header due to the lack of heat/noise shielding and possibly thinner tube walls
__________________
2013 FRS
Vortech V3 11psi
Revworks UEL - PLM Overpipe - MOTIV catted frontpipe - Invidia Q300
2019 Series.Grey STI - Stage1+ SF
DJCarbine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2014, 11:16 AM   #56
Luckrider
My Other Ride's a Jeep
 
Luckrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Drives: 2013 BRZ Limited
Location: United States
Posts: 893
Thanks: 431
Thanked 253 Times in 198 Posts
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJCarbine View Post
Do you have a stock header?

I'm thinking its more pronounced with an aftermarket header due to the lack of heat/noise shielding and possibly thinner tube walls
Yes, I have the stock exhaust.
Luckrider is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Variable Valve "Butterfly" Exhaust dlux Southern California 19 02-22-2016 06:21 PM
First tank OFT E85 tuning. Noise? Tromatic Software Tuning 2 02-20-2014 05:43 PM
Exhaust Cut Off Valve beagoodruslan Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 2 01-01-2014 01:47 AM
Exhaust Noise that goes away after warmed up FastLane1000 Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 10 08-15-2013 10:06 PM
Knock/valve slap/crick noise under accel yomny Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB 47 01-07-2013 08:53 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.