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BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics All discussions about the first-gen Subaru BRZ coupe


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Old 05-14-2012, 05:22 AM   #1
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Is the brz/frs too expensive?

Initially, they wanted this vehicle to start out in the low 20's and that's what got a lot of people excited. 200 hp, rwd, toyobaru quality, good styling, sold! Instead they end up in the $25k to $30k range.

For what you get, I don't really think this car will be as popular as most of us think it will be. I think that by the end of the year, dealerships will be selling this vehicle under invoice...and that's probably when I might bite. What I really want is 240-260 hp, better suspension, aka sti version for low 30's and I'll bite. Otoh, for low to mid 30's...you can purchase a wrx sti that's bigger, faster, just not as fun to drive.

Basically, after the initial hype/demand, I think sales will stagger because toyobaru priced this vehicle too high. What do you guys think? Do you think they can sustain a high demand at this price?
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Old 05-14-2012, 05:35 AM   #2
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I personally think its a alright price. Slightly steep on my side but it'll benefit me as not everyone can get it then.

It's also only expensive if the dealer's add a stupid amount of additional MSRP because they want to milk the car.
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Old 05-14-2012, 05:50 AM   #3
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I think for what you get it's a reasonable price.

Really reasonable in terms of Canadian pricing.
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Old 05-14-2012, 06:13 AM   #4
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You know what I think a big part of the problem is, people have become too jaded by platform sharing and its effects on vehicle costs. When an almost completely bespoke vehicle comes around - especially from an Asian manufacturer (who makes inexpensive cars in the public's eye), most people cannot fathom why it costs what it does.

OP: think about the R&D it took to get the car here, think about the R&D it's going to take to get the 'STI' version everyone seems to want, think about the marketing, Gov't safety regulations for homologation as a world car, and think about the other cars that share the BRZ/FR-S (I am lumping them in as the same car) with which Subaru and Toyota can spread the costs over - hint: there are none.

The car is reasonably priced.
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Old 05-14-2012, 06:23 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Lighting Red View Post
You know what I think a big part of the problem is, people have become too jaded by platform sharing and its effects on vehicle costs. When an almost completely bespoke vehicle comes around - especially from an Asian manufacturer (who makes inexpensive cars in the public's eye), most people cannot fathom why it costs what it does.

OP: think about the R&D it took to get the car here, think about the R&D it's going to take to get the 'STI' version everyone seems to want, think about the marketing, Gov't safety regulations for homologation as a world car, and think about the other cars that share the BRZ/FR-S (I am lumping them in as the same car) with which Subaru and Toyota can spread the costs over - hint: there are none.

The car is reasonably priced.
One other thing people tend to forget: when Toyota/ Subaru announced this project back in 08, and said they were aiming for a sub- $20,000 price-tag, the world economy was still kinda clicking along alright. Fast forward to today, where the Japanese yen is solidly 25% stronger against the dollar, and that means prices on cars they export have to go up as well. Seems kinda counter-intuitive to most people, but Japan is not happy that the yen became so valuable, because they're an export driven economy, and a more valuable yen hurts their bottom line. It means they get fewer dollars in overseas sales for every yen spent making something. THAT'S the single biggest reason our price shot up $5k; they met their price goals just fine for the Japanese domestic market.
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Old 05-14-2012, 06:44 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huma View Post
Initially, they wanted this vehicle to start out in the low 20's and that's what got a lot of people excited. 200 hp, rwd, toyobaru quality, good styling, sold! Instead they end up in the $25k to $30k range.

For what you get, I don't really think this car will be as popular as most of us think it will be. I think that by the end of the year, dealerships will be selling this vehicle under invoice...and that's probably when I might bite. What I really want is 240-260 hp, better suspension, aka sti version for low 30's and I'll bite. Otoh, for low to mid 30's...you can purchase a wrx sti that's bigger, faster, just not as fun to drive.

Basically, after the initial hype/demand, I think sales will stagger because toyobaru priced this vehicle too high. What do you guys think? Do you think they can sustain a high demand at this price?
Search and you'll find lots of posts about this. For instance:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deslock View Post
Rumor timeline:
  • 2007: $17-18k for 120 hp 1.5L RWD.
  • 2009: 2.0L RWD concept introduced with a target from "around $20k" to "low $20,000s". Power unknown (rumors put it at 157, 180, or 200 HP).
  • 2011: 200 HP 2.0L RWD starting at low $20,000s to $25k.
Given that the Si is $22k, there was no way a lighter, RWD, 200 HP FT86 was going to be less than $23k. Its starting price of $24k is only ~4% more than that.
IMO, the starting price is reasonable, especially given the yen's strength. But I won't be surprised if it's selling for invoice by the end of the year.
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Old 05-14-2012, 07:09 AM   #7
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Back in 2008, the Yen was 105 Yen per American dollar. At $20k dollars, that's 2,100,000 yen. In 2012, there are only 80 Yen per American Dollar.

(20,000 Dollars) * (105 Yen/Dollar) = 2,100,000 Yen.

(2,100,000 Yen) / (80 Yen/Dollar) = 26,250 American Dollars.

So they met their price target of ~2,000,000 Yen. It's just that the American Dollar has dropped in the meantime. It's hard to blame Subaru and Toyota for that.

Just in case anyone wants to see the math.

Sources:
http://www.x-rates.com/cgi-bin/hlookup.cgi

http://www.x-rates.com/calculator.html
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Old 05-14-2012, 07:19 AM   #8
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I wonder if Toyota/Subaru will even break even with this car after it's all said and done with 1st year fiscal reports?
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Old 05-14-2012, 08:24 AM   #9
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Additionally, when you compare it with the other cars that are considered competition (GTI, Gen Coupe, Mini, Miata, etc) the price is smack dab in the middle when it comes to similar options.

The price is exactly where they should have put it. I'm not sure what people were expecting. They brought to market a car unlike any other with handling characteristics similar to cars in the high 40s and higher. I just don't know why people think Toybaru should undercut everyone by $3K-$8K. Makes no sense.

I know they announced sub $20K years ago, but come on, do people really think car prices are unrelated to economic forces? Mind boggling.
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Old 05-14-2012, 08:37 AM   #10
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Depends on your definition of expensive. For a sporty 200hp lightweight sport coupe I considered it cheap at the lower trim levels.
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Old 05-14-2012, 08:46 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco-REX View Post
Additionally, when you compare it with the other cars that are considered competition (GTI, Gen Coupe, Mini, Miata, etc) the price is smack dab in the middle when it comes to similar options.

The price is exactly where they should have put it. I'm not sure what people were expecting. They brought to market a car unlike any other with handling characteristics similar to cars in the high 40s and higher. I just don't know why people think Toybaru should undercut everyone by $3K-$8K. Makes no sense.

I know they announced sub $20K years ago, but come on, do people really think car prices are unrelated to economic forces? Mind boggling.
People are inherently simple creatures, and will glom onto the first thing they hear. Many are also resistant to change so much so that they can become defiant even in the face of obvious evidence if it counters what they originally heard. It's incredible.

Folks: The BRZ is going to be either $25k and some change, or $28k and some change, depending on trim level, whether you like it or not. You either pay it, or you don't.

Just one piece of advice; [rant on] if the price of this car is such that you feel compelled to argue the cost things such as delivery and processing fee (though out of principle I understand this one...) because the car is out of reach otherwise, don't buy it. Don't get yourself in a hole over an "inexpensive" car you really can't afford. The financial system is designed to rape you. Don't walk around with your pants around your ankles and allow this industry to drive a BRZ shaped Trojan Horse right up your ass. You'd be paying for that mistake for a long, long time, and you won't even enjoy the car. [rant off]
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Old 05-14-2012, 10:03 AM   #12
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I used to feel that because of the interior quality. However, there is NO price to be put on fun driving

Quote:
Originally Posted by huma View Post
Initially, they wanted this vehicle to start out in the low 20's and that's what got a lot of people excited. 200 hp, rwd, toyobaru quality, good styling, sold! Instead they end up in the $25k to $30k range.

For what you get, I don't really think this car will be as popular as most of us think it will be. I think that by the end of the year, dealerships will be selling this vehicle under invoice...and that's probably when I might bite. What I really want is 240-260 hp, better suspension, aka sti version for low 30's and I'll bite. Otoh, for low to mid 30's...you can purchase a wrx sti that's bigger, faster, just not as fun to drive.

Basically, after the initial hype/demand, I think sales will stagger because toyobaru priced this vehicle too high. What do you guys think? Do you think they can sustain a high demand at this price?
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Old 05-14-2012, 10:06 AM   #13
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I think the car is quite expensive, but I totally understand why that is. The dollar sucks, the job market sucks, and cost of living sucks. Everything is expensive these days!
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Old 05-14-2012, 10:07 AM   #14
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Just because you can feel the road through the steering wheel and pedals, doesn't mean the car is more valuable.
I would argue that, technically, it does. If that's what you want out of your sports car, and there's nothing else on the market that costs less than a new home, that makes this car more valuable to you. With all the absurdly high horsepower muscle cars, and insanely fast rally-car specials, Toyota/ Subaru managed to find a missing niche in the sports car market: a car focused more on simplicity and interaction with driver than speed.

And of course, seeing as there's not much competition in that field at the moment, they're going to charge accordingly for it.

Me? I'm going to pray that sales are good enough on this car that it prompts the other Japanese car companies to follow suit. Imagine... a coupe version of the Mazdaspeed MX-5; a revival of the Silvia name for Nissan; maybe even Suzuki could reintroduce the Cappuccino, and bring it to the states. All small, RWD coupes focused more on fun than speed. And what's that? You say the field's too crowded now, and there's a pricing war going on? Mmmm..... <purr....>

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