86 vs new Supra--review by TFL car

[RayRay88]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

I think the sales numbers are going to be very disappointing. People who can afford it are going to find a market segment fairly crowded with competitors in the same price range that are more comfortable, have better performance numbers, or both. Why buy a Supra when you can spend the same money on a Porsche, Corvette or F-Type?

The real Toyota fanboys who will want it most just because it's got the Supra name on it won't be able to afford it. If anything, I'd expect the Supra to sell more 86s. It'll get the typical Toyota fanboy into the dealership to lick the windows, but then when he accepts that he really can't afford the monthly payment he'll buy an 86 as a compromise instead.

And this ladies and gentleman, is the exact reason why Toyota has to partner with BMW to bring the supra back to life, or why they had to partner with Subaru to bring the 86 to market.

[Adam_L]

It reduces Toyotas costs, overall in general. It costs a lot to engineer a engine/tranny. Toyota had some input on what they wanted in a engine, but at the end of the day it was Subaru's facility and BMW's facility that ended up producing engines /tranny's for Toyota sports cars.

On the MPG side of things, surely it's a sports car so not a Major detail consideration when purchasing the car. At $4 a gallon now here on the West coast, I'd still contend that it's at least a minor detail when considering buying any car (new, used, sports car, truck, hybrid , etc). It is a factor , depending upon who the buyer is in the market potentially making the purchase, it's still a number/detail that's real ( real to a degree, one person gets 28 mpg avg , another person gets 31mpg average …same county, same model year car. Ultimately it's how the person handles/ drives the car, maintains , proper tire pressure,etc that will determine what kind of mpg he/she will obtain).

[Aluma007]

so is the lower base 4cyl version next year going to have a toyota engine or will it also get the bmw's 4cyl?

[HachiRokuX]

Originally Posted by Aluma007

so is the lower base 4cyl version next year going to have a toyota engine or will it also get the bmw's 4cyl?

It’s going to be the same BMW sourced, B48 in-line four engine found in the lower Z4 trim.


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[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by RayRay88

And this ladies and gentleman, is the exact reason why Toyota has to partner with BMW to bring the supra back to life, or why they had to partner with Subaru to bring the 86 to market.

Toyota is continually among the largest car companies in the world. GM doesn't have to partner with anybody to produce a Corvette. There's no reason Toyota has to partner with anybody to create a halo car to compete in the same market segment.

The 86 was different because there wasn't really anything in that market segment. The market for a low-cost sports car had been abandoned years ago when people stopped buying MGs and everything else grew heavier and/or more expensive. The question was whether a market still existed, and the uncertainty over the answer was what made risk reduction via a joint venture make sense.

If they're approaching their halo car with a risk reduction strategy, they're already doing it wrong.

[FR-Sky]

There is no comparison.
28k vs 50k car, not even the same class.

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Toyota is continually among the largest car companies in the world. GM doesn't have to partner with anybody to produce a Corvette. There's no reason Toyota has to partner with anybody to create a halo car to compete in the same market segment.

The 86 was different because there wasn't really anything in that market segment. The market for a low-cost sports car had been abandoned years ago when people stopped buying MGs and everything else grew heavier and/or more expensive. The question was whether a market still existed, and the uncertainty over the answer was what made risk reduction via a joint venture make sense.

If they're approaching their halo car with a risk reduction strategy, they're already doing it wrong.

I would say the Halo car for Toyota is the LFA.

In saying that I wish Toyota/ Lexus made the "Supra" instead of the BMW Zupra.

To confuse matters I wish Toyota/Lexus made the 86, sadly they partnered with Subaru, BUT, the merger wasn't enough of a worry for me.

I'm excited about the news from J IRT the "new" twins.

[RayRay88]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Toyota is continually among the largest car companies in the world. GM doesn't have to partner with anybody to produce a Corvette. There's no reason Toyota has to partner with anybody to create a halo car to compete in the same market segment.

The 86 was different because there wasn't really anything in that market segment. The market for a low-cost sports car had been abandoned years ago when people stopped buying MGs and everything else grew heavier and/or more expensive. The question was whether a market still existed, and the uncertainty over the answer was what made risk reduction via a joint venture make sense.

If they're approaching their halo car with a risk reduction strategy, they're already doing it wrong.

Yes the Supra is Toyota's halo car. It is also placed very low or midpack in the grand scheme of global sports cars. That market segment is heavily contested and they expect volume to be low. To be honest neither of the two cars would exist if it wasn't for Subaru and BMW. The alternative would have been something half hearted and based off of one of Toyota's global vehicle architecture ie, not a sports car.

In regards to the Corvette comment, look at historical sales of Corvette's, they easily, on average outsell the 86 or even the projected Supra numbers 10:1. Drop down to the Camaro and that jumps up to 20:1.

Also, don't at any point think I don't agree with you, the Supra and, for the most part, the 86 should have bespoke Toyota chassis, with Toyota powerplants, but that's just not the world we live in. It's always going to be a numbers game, especially with a company as large and profit driven as Toyota. (That's not to say they're different than any other large manufacturer.)

You want them to make a pure Toyota sports cars again, then go out there and buy a new Supra or 86, convince everyone you know to get one too. Money talks.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by RayRay88

In regards to the Corvette comment, look at historical sales of Corvette's, they easily, on average outsell the 86 or even the projected Supra numbers 10:1. Drop down to the Camaro and that jumps up to 20:1.

Yep, in fact they sold as many of one submodel as Toyota sold 86s this year. Here's the breakdown:



Reference is the Corvette Museum at the factory.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Aluma007

so is the lower base 4cyl version next year going to have a toyota engine or will it also get the bmw's 4cyl?

Everything in the Supra comes from the BMW Parts bin, so the motor would be the B48 2.0 Turbo.

[Th3rdSun]

Watch this review. I like these guys a little more than TFL's review.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP5k10iCOlE[/ame]

[TommyW]

Track test By Matt Farah. Not sure if this has already been posted

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lulZDyqW_7w[/ame]

[etherdude]

I had planned to save up for a Supra, but now know it will not work for me. The Supra is too small INSIDE!. As a musician who plays a moderately large brass instrument, I need the trunk and rear seat space, both with and without the seat folded. Going to have to plan on that British Racing Green 2020 Toyota 86.

[HKz]

Originally Posted by PetrolioBenzina

I would have gladly taken the AT on the road today. Yay, PDX. So y'all are saying the only fun provided by a car is based on the transmission? Corner entry, exit, setup, carrying speed and all the rest is secondary? None of that is "fun" or "driver involvement"? Sucks to be you, I guess.

but where did I say I didn't have any fun in my AT 86, I said I'm having even more fun with my MT! For me it is feel/involvement > power/0-60 times, so with the Supra focusing more as a "driver's car" and having the Cayman as a benchmark, it is just very odd they decided not to go with the 2 trans options...when one is already developed for the M240i it hurts even more. I don't think auto trannys suck at all, and the 6 speed auto in the 86 was great but I personally got a bit bored with the transmission