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Old 10-14-2015, 06:41 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by LostSalad View Post
Fsck yes. Most important upgrade you can do by far. I don't know if I'd risk heading to Zwartkops on the OEM brake system; it just won't survive and consequently I might not either o.O

I agree that BBKs are shit expensive. Another thing that I found out recently is that the PowerBrake kit does not clear the stock wheels, so you will need spacers or aftermarket wheels. I'm still figuring out what spacer solution is the least effort while remaining safe. I still want to get a quote from Vari.

A lot of guys have had success with PowerBrake. Check out their website and pop them a mail - they're good at helping you figure out what's appropriate for your needs.
Stock brakes are great! Mine a managed 3 Zwartkops, 2 red stars, and a Kyalami before dying.
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Old 10-14-2015, 07:06 AM   #156
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Stock brakes are great! Mine a managed 3 Zwartkops, 2 red stars, and a Kyalami before dying.
I agree with Mr. AlanGee. Just upgrade the brake fluid (Motul RBF660).
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Old 10-14-2015, 07:09 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by LostSalad View Post
What pads are you getting from RMS? ".

I see they have a new disc that's slightly cheaper though - "high carbon" iron alloy. Any ideas about what this is and the benefits / drawbacks?
If I remember correctly it was a matched set of power brake discs + pads. High performance, but road orientated. I doubt I'll do too many track days, maybe just 1 or 2.
(I've burned more money that I want to admit on motorcycle racing, tyres, fuel, parts etc).


Not sure about the new disc offering, but they're reputable so doubt it's something that wouldn't pass their normal standards.
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Old 10-14-2015, 07:11 AM   #158
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I agree with Mr. AlanGee. Just upgrade the brake fluid (Motul RBF660).
Clearly you haven't experienced truly great brakes?!

Upgraded pads, master cyclinder, fluid and hoses on my bike and the difference was mega. Matched rotors and better pads should be even better!!
Brake fluid is obviously NB too, but for extended life, use and best performance a matched set is always better.

I don't find the STD brakes to be that amazing - and I have the hi-spec with slight better front brakes anyway.
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Old 10-14-2015, 07:54 AM   #159
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I think I may have more experience with the car than you do and I am happy with the balance of a NA car with the high spec brakes.

By all means enjoy your powerful stopping power with the 1 or maybe 2 track days that you plan on doing.
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Old 10-14-2015, 08:21 AM   #160
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I agree with Mr. AlanGee. Just upgrade the brake fluid (Motul RBF660).
Agreed X3



Very dependent on driving style and how many hotlaps you try getting out of stock brakes. Expecting to do more then 4 hotlaps (track dependent) on most stock brakes is just unrealistic and dangerous - I think thats the biggest mistake people make.
Keep the number of hotlaps low, brake late and hard and stock brakes arent bad at all.
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Old 10-14-2015, 12:54 PM   #161
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Agreed X3
Very dependent on driving style and how many hotlaps you try getting out of stock brakes. Expecting to do more then 4 hotlaps (track dependent) on most stock brakes is just unrealistic and dangerous - I think thats the biggest mistake people make.
Keep the number of hotlaps low, brake late and hard and stock brakes arent bad at all.
Yep, that's right. Stock brakes can be OK, but you MUST upgrade brake fluid and Motul 660 is the minimum.

Go on track with stock fluid, and you'll go off between lap 4 and 7 depending on how hard you push, but go off is inevitable...

No 1 priority is fluid, and no 2, and no 3, then do pads, then do rotors, then go BBK. But you can have a lot of safe fun with just upgraded fluid.

Been there, done that, gone off badly, and survived that - very early in my tracking exposure.

After 23 track days, my advice is that it's 100% essential to upgrade fluid, then feel out the rest as you push harder.
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Old 10-14-2015, 01:08 PM   #162
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Clearly you haven't experienced truly great brakes?!

Upgraded pads, master cyclinder, fluid and hoses on my bike and the difference was mega. Matched rotors and better pads should be even better!!
Brake fluid is obviously NB too, but for extended life, use and best performance a matched set is always better.

I don't find the STD brakes to be that amazing - and I have the hi-spec with slight better front brakes anyway.
Since you are a 'motorcycle' track guy, you should def spend more than 1 or 2 track days with the 86, its truly a spectacular car to drive on track.

I am at two minds at my opinion of stock brakes vs upgraded brakes.

I am in agreement with both you and Freedom

1) Stock brakes durability:
From my experience, the STD brakes lasted 3 years + 2 track days.

I opted to upgrade my brake pads recently
(Because I thought my brake pads were close to cooked),

but to my surprise my STD brake pads still had approx +65% life on them ....Which proves that these brake pads are pretty good,

(That's if you upgrade to a higher boiling point brake fluid Motul RBF660 and regulate your hot laps)

2) Braking power:

I am unsure about this on the STD pads,

The STD pads do not inspire confidence, but this is more a psychological effect for me personally, as I never had the balls to reach the limit which could lead to a possibility of 'farming'.
(NB. I am a Durban Indian and I am inherently afraid of farming, and all things to do with sugarcane, lol)

So I don't really know the limits of the stock brakes.

Neither do I know the limits of the Endless pads I am running as yet...

In theory upgraded brake pads like Endless should create stronger braking power, but whether this is relevant to a N/A 86 is debatable.

IMO if you tracking a N/A 86 - you don't really need to upgrade brake pads and discs.

I improved my lap times by 3% (2 seconds) by upgrading my brake pads to Endless PB05 pads (which are decent entry track pads).
This 3% improvement could also be a result of slight increase in experience. (Learning curve)

With regards to your needs, going FI in the future would def need upgraded brakes...

I was chatting to the Red RMS SC 86 owner last Sunday, (The one which spits fire)
and he was telling me he reaches speeds of 180+ just before turn 4 at Zwartkops then needs to brake in a second or so down to 110/120 to take the bend, which is pretty scary and a possible suicide if you have stock brakes on a SC 86.

Going Off topic now ---->

Stock N/A 86 (+BRZ exhaust) @LostSalad used to do 1m22 laps at Zwartkops on stock tyres + upgraded brakes

Jacques (RGM's highly experienced 'Stiglet') did a base lap of 1m21 on a RGM SC 86 with stock tyres + upgraded brakes

Pretty similar ? N/A and Supercharged?

So that brings me to my 'off topic' point (which is obvious),

If you going to go FI ...instead of buying fancy tail lights and putting 'sound' lol please please buy a decent set of Semi Slicks, they are so much fun!

Jacq (stiglet) does close to 1m12 with Robs RGM SC 86 with Semi slicks and coilovers, that's a massive improvement of 9 seconds at Z.

Gugu Zulu does Zwartkops with the BRZ (Sti version) in 1m16.8
And from the video the BRZ looks like it has upgraded road tyres(18inch wheels).

Conclusion of off topic rant: Our Primacy tyres are fantastic drift tyres and long lasting... you can use them to track as well...but they do not GRIP well enough for a quick track car.
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Old 10-14-2015, 01:38 PM   #163
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I think you got something skew...

Jacques' best lap at the Z with RGM's SC car on semis that I know of is 1m12.8.
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Old 10-14-2015, 01:42 PM   #164
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I think you got something skew...

Jacques' best lap at the Z with RGM's SC car on semis that I know of is 1m12.8.
That's right, sorry about that , couldn't remember the exact time
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Old 10-14-2015, 03:03 PM   #165
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(NB. I am a Durban Indian and I am inherently afraid of farming, and all things to do with sugarcane, lol)
Fkin died, LOL

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In theory upgraded brake pads like Endless should create stronger braking power, but whether this is relevant to a N/A 86 is debatable.
Maybe, but it won't help your stopping distance. OEM brakes can lock up the front (kick in ABS) so the limit is the tyres, not the brakes. All the upgrades really help with is heat management, and "feel".

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IMO if you tracking a N/A 86 - you don't really need to upgrade brake pads and discs.
Depends how hard you want to push, I guess. Once again, it's about heat management. I can't really comment because I haven't hit the track with OEM brakes, but even if they don't give up, surely brake fade becomes an issue and you get less consistency?

Quote:
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Jacq (stiglet) does close to 1m12 with Robs RGM SC 86 with Semi slicks and coilovers, that's a massive improvement of 9 seconds at Z.
Holy crap that guy can drive
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Old 10-14-2015, 03:22 PM   #166
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Holy crap that guy can drive
I'm looking forward to what Jacq sets in your car
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Old 10-14-2015, 03:51 PM   #167
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I'm looking forward to what Jacq sets in your car
Lol when is this happening I did datalogging and analysis at Red Star but nothing else besides that.

I first want to get my transmission sorted before anyone goes and fast shifts the crap out of it :/. Heavy grind from 3rd - 4th when shifting at high gears.
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Old 10-14-2015, 04:24 PM   #168
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I agree with its of what you said... And had a good laugh about your wish to remain a none farmer ;-)

The stock brakes aren't bad, but I've heard good things about some of the upgrade options. (The key is matching the pads and discs). Just been trying to decide the best value for money options. @LostSalad the upgrades do decrease stopping distance on stock tires and suspension - esp as speeds increase. So it's not just about heat. I can jam the wooden brakes of a bmx and lock the tires... So not quite that simple.

Just btw spoke to RGM and he said their first tyre change to bridgestones actually made them slower at Z (std sizes). Since then they've obviously made lots of improvements.

Out if interest we were doing between 1:06s and 1:12s on the bikes (600s) at Z. National boys 1:02s at the time.
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