Nightmare driving FR-S vs driving Miata

[chrisngn]

I am having nightmares driving my FR-S.

I bought the car after several lessons from my friend who taught me how to get the car rolling and how to upshift. I learned the basics of downshifting from youtube. I test drove both the FR-S and the Miata with my nooby skills and I managed to get through the test drives. Then I decided to purchase this car and practice on it.

So it's been a month now, and although I have learned more about my car, I still have the hardest time smoothing out my shifts.

My complaints/problems
1. The biting point of the clutch feels high to me. I don't want to release the clutch too fast to catch the biting point because sometimes it would give a slight jerk if I miss it just a by little bit, and other times it would give a huge jerk if I miss it by a lot (like catching the biting point at the end of the range or missing it completely). However, when I release the clutch slowly to catch the biting point, I feel like it's never coming... I keep thinking… wait for it (release a little more)... wait for it (release a little more)... wait for it (dammit where is it)... and when it finally bites, the rpm has dropped too low and/or the speed has also dropped too much, and then I need to adjust to a different rpm for a smooth transition into the next gear. I know there are threads out there for lower clutch engage mod, but the car is designed like this for a reason and other people can obviously drive it just fine, so I want to hear your opinion on this.

2. It is hell break loose in stop-and-go traffic. It has gotten better now since I go to neutral more often to coast at really low speed like less than 8 mph. If the speed is a little higher, I try to maintain the gas at a constant pace so engine braking doesn’t set in too often. But I feel like there is so much engine braking in first and second gear, and the engine braking is so rough that it makes it really hard to have a smooth and slow coast in traffic.

3. I feel like I need to feed this car a little more gas when starting off. If I just let off the clutch to catch the biting point on a level surface, the car would start to move a little bit but will lug and complain (it jerks very unhappily), so I have to give it a little gas to make it smoother. This makes it harder to control the car a little bit when I’m going uphill on my driveway and into the garage.

4. The shifter seems forcibly rough sometimes. Most of the time it is smooth and has a nice tactile feedback, but there are times, I feel I have to use a little more force and really push it into gear and I hear a louder clunk or click than usual. I’m worried, but other posters here said that this is normal and these transmissions make all sorts of noise.

5. The car sounds terrible. In terms of enjoyment, I don’t enjoy the sound of the engine in this car. This is not really a problem with driving, but it does bother me. I usually drive with the windows down so I can listen to the engine coming from the outside (which I prefer because it sounds better to me) and also because the wind masks some of that nasally sound. The other option is to turn on the AC or music a little high so it can mask out the nasally engine sound. Nasally is the best I can describe it; it’s a very whiny noise. I prefer a lower frequency sound like lower pitches that would hit my chest and I can feel them. My car however just makes whiny high pitch sound.

The main reason I’m making this post is because I recently went to test drive the MX-5 again, and I experienced none of these problems! The car will move slowly and steadily on its own from stop if I just release the clutch and catch the biting point (no gas used on level surfaced and just a tiny bit on incline surface). Stopping and starting and coasting at low speeds are smooth and little to no jerk. I must admit, I really, really love the clutch and the shifter on the MX-5 more than what I have in my car. The clutch bites closer to the floor so it is easier for me to feel it. The shifting is shorter and the shifter really wants to "suck" the knob into gear when you it move towards the gear. I don’t even have trouble shifting into 5th; it’s just one smooth motion.

If anyone has ever/is currently experiencing what I am experiencing, I'd love to hear from you. I'd also love to hear if you have suggestions for my lack of experience and skills in driving, or if you have opinions on FR-S vs Miata driving.

Update 1:
Thanks everyone for the encouragement--I am planning to stick with my car and continue to learn it. I know a month is really not that much time and the reason that I haven't gave up is because I know I can do better. I want to experience the joy and enlightenment that the people before me have discovered.

I really want to know if all the issues I am experiencing are because of my skills, or if they are just the design of the car. Are these issues I'm describing normal? There are good days though!

Update 2:
Special thanks to those who pointed out some obvious observations or aspects of the car that might not have been obvious to me since I am new to this car. Some of the things that comes to mind are 900-1500 rpm gas for a smoother start, moving the shift lever slowly and firmly since it’s moving heavy mechanical parts, dead spot at the top of the throttle, embracing the sound that comes with this car. After being aware of these things and to an extent internalizing them, my experience has really improved in just a day. The posters who had a lot of friends to ask questions are very lucky .

Things that I will try next will be plugging in the sound tube (thanks to the person who linked the video the demo’ed the difference with and without the plug), changing the transmission oil, and lowering clutch engagement point (I hope the people who recommended this mod tried it themselves).

There were many more helpful comments ranging from tips to critiques so thank you all who commented, and thank you for your encouragement! It seems I haven’t met the threshold for adding a simple thank you to a comment or I would!

[krayzie]

Every stick shift car is a little different in regards to operating feel of the shifter and clutch. I've never driven a Miata but from friends I know that have owned the old ones, they told me these cars are indeed quite easy to learn on and drive smoothly.

It's really just a matter of how adaptable you are to driving different cars and what characteristics you really prefer. That being said, imo the twin is already quite easy to drive.

BTW you should figure out how to get it in gear below 8mph, you will do much better in bumper to bumper traffic and safer driving. Try a different gearbox oil that allows easier and smoother engagement (I'm using Subaru Extra-S / Eneos Gear Oil). You can also search the forum as to how to adjust the clutch pedal height or remove the helper spring (me personally I didn't need to do this).

Don't give up keep practicing and maybe give these instructional videos a try:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...8EA7254AE8EC79

Worst case just trade for a Miata?

BTW if you need to get a better and more accurate pedal feel, try shoes with very thin soles at both the forefoot and the heel, with straight sides at the midfoot.

[Packofcrows]

Take your time. In 3 months you'll get it down. Burning your clutch isnt as bad as blowing your engine so don't worry.

Again take your time. Try to give it gas to about .9-1.3k rpm and slowly let go of clutch while rolling it. You'll get it down in no time.

[Songha]

You can try the clutch spring mod thing in the diy section. Sounds like it's helped others. I haven't done it cause I'm used to the weird clutch we have. Don't like it still.

[Tcoat]

What those guys said.

As far as the engine sound goes, in one month you probably haven't heard half the weird noises yet. It is a boxer in a virtually non soundproofed car so you either learn to love it or trade it. The sounds are not going away.

[mdm]

Keep practicing. When I was learning to drive (in a manual) I spent the first few driver's ed lessons on an empty road stopping, starting, going through first three gears, stopping again, and over and over again for an hour. Don't overthink it. This should be done automatically, it's a skill (in neuropsychological sense of the word) not knowledge. You don't learn skills by thinking, you learn them by repeating actions.

Also, in all MT cars I have driven some gas was needed. I haven't driven a twin, but I doubt they are different here, especially that there is not so much of torque. Ultimately, your right foot will go down while your left foot is going down and you won't even think or know or notice how it happens. Just keep practicing.

[Clipdat]

Re: sound, I thought some things that might help would be removing the sound generator and plugging the hole, and putting on a subtle axleback like the SP Elite (if you can still find it), or equivalent. Then you'll be able to hear the exhaust instead of the engine.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

What those guys said.

As far as the engine sound goes, in one month you probably haven't heard half the weird noises yet. It is a boxer in a virtually non soundproofed car so you either learn to love it or trade it. The sounds are not going away.

[Teseo]

Welcome to the ft86 club!!

[chaoskaze]

when did you get the car? You are just picking, not driving. Drive more & the problem soon disappear

Ps: you problem will go away if you stop trying to be like a law abiding citizen/ drive like a granny/ normal car. Try shift @ 4K+ every gear before you get use to it.

Ps2: I'm not joking.

[guybo]

As for the sound- do the sound tube delete. I like the engine sound but I did the sound tube delete, changed my exhaust and added an intake and it sounds fantastic. But the sound tube sound can be grating.

The clutch and shifter is great on the FRS, but the MX-5 has had a LOT of R&D put into the clutch and shifter feel. I saw a review of that car on TV and they went on at length about how much time they put into just the shifting FEEL alone. As you learn to drive the manual more you'll grow into it, but I have a feeling it'll never feel like the MX-5.

[chaoskaze]

Originally Posted by guybo

As for the sound- do the sound tube delete. I like the engine sound but I did the sound tube delete, changed my exhaust and added an intake and it sounds fantastic. But the sound tube sound can be grating.

The clutch and shifter is great on the FRS, but the MX-5 has had a LOT of R&D put into the clutch and shifter feel. I saw a review of that car on TV and they went on at length about how much time they put into just the shifting FEEL alone. As you learn to drive the manual more you'll grow into it, but I have a feeling it'll never feel like the MX-5.

Watch motoman tv, his tech review is the best on Internet cuz he get the engineer to talk about them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Clipdat

Re: sound, I thought some things that might help would be removing the sound generator and plugging the hole, and putting on a subtle axleback like the SP Elite (if you can still find it), or equivalent. Then you'll be able to hear the exhaust instead of the engine.

Sound tube would help, exhaust will make it better but in the end it still will sound like a boxer engine.

[humfrz]

Well, HELLO chrisngn .... and WELCOME to ..... The Gang!

First off, I'll comment on driving the miata vs the FR-S.

I drove my Miata (NC) for about 80,000 miles before I purchased my 2013 FR-S. The first thing I noticed was the high release point. At first, I thought I didn't have it in gear. That just takes some getten used to.

I found the miata 5 speed the smoothest MT that I ever shifted. The balance, throw, gates and smoothness are spot on. I still find the FR-S MT a bit clunky and rough (relative to the miata) ...... but, hey, that is what it is.

Yep, with the clutch high release point, touchy gas pedal and relatively light flywheel ....... shifting is an learned science/art in this machine. You might try this technique:

I would suggest that when shifting, wind up the last gear pretty tight (4-5,000 rpms) before shifting into the next higher gear.

Also, when shifting, pull (or push) the shift lever slowly and firmly into the next gear.

It's not a toggle switch ..... the lever is moving heavy transmission parts.

I suggest you NOT "lazy leg" it ……. DO push the clutch pedal all the way to the floor (even though it does have a high release point).

Hey, don't feel bad ....... I've been driving MT vehicles for over 65 years and I still "kill" my FR-S about once a week ......


humfrz

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Well, HELLO chrisngn .... and WELCOME to ..... The Gang!

First off, I'll comment on driving the miata vs the FR-S.

I drove my Miata (NC) for about 80,000 miles before I purchased my 2013 FR-S. The first thing I noticed was the high release point. At first, I thought I didn't have it in gear. That just takes some getten used to.

I found the miata 5 speed the smoothest MT that I ever shifted. The balance, throw, gates and smoothness are spot on. I still find the FR-S MT a bit clunky and rough (relative to the miata) ...... but, hey, that is what it is.

Yep, with the clutch high release point, touchy gas pedal and relatively light flywheel ....... shifting is an learned science/art in this machine. You might try this technique:

I would suggest that when shifting, wind up the last gear pretty tight (4-5,000 rpms) before shifting into the next higher gear.

Also, when shifting, pull (or push) the shift lever slowly and firmly into the next gear.

It's not a toggle switch ..... the lever is moving heavy transmission parts.

I suggest you NOT "lazy leg" it ……. DO push the clutch pedal all the way to the floor (even though it does have a high release point).

Hey, don't feel bad ....... I've been driving MT vehicles for over 65 years and I still "kill" my FR-S about once a week ......


humfrz

LOL Do you have a spiel saved or just memorized?