Spec Ft86 racer in the future?

[icemang17]

well I officially sold my previous race car!!! I have a year left on the lease of my FRS then intend to turn it into a "spec" FT86 racer!!!

The trick is working with major sanctioning bodies (NASA-SCCA) to come up with an acceptable parts list that makes a spec racer!

My thoughts are keep as much stock as possible to reduce costs? The biggest issues to address are shocks-springs-swaybars and brakes. After that is exhausts and minimum weight, ride height, width, wheels +tires

I know Spec Miata and Spec E30 tend to run bilstein shocks, and I am not opposed to this. However an upgrade to coilovers like the PSS systems might be worth it? I also like adjustable top hats like ground control for better alignment adjustments.

BRAKES: I think keep stock calipers, lines, rotors, fluid and pads are free. Master cylinder brace is acceptable too

Wheels-tires. I say stock 17x7 or 17x8 with a minimum weight rule,like the others. Tires should be 225/45-17 R comps, brand to be determined? I am not opposed to even a high performance street tire for cost reaons?

More later

[Tainen]

If you want to start going down the spec road, which I'm sure will exist for the twins, I'd start with the known quantities- get a really nice certified cage in there, strip the interior, get the right seats, harnesses, etc that are generally accepted in the spec classes. That work alone would probably buy you enough time and effort to figure out the spec parts to go with.


Keep us informed what you find out- twins spec racing sounds AWESOME and I can't wait for it!

[SubiePig]

I look forward to these cars turning into a spec car.
I think a header back, coils of some form(non adjustable valving and a set spring rate), Adjustable sway bars, any brake pads with ducting, 225 hoosiers, basically same as Spec miata/E30 would make a perfect set of base rules for it.

[icemang17]

without a doubt there will be a spec series for these cars. Its just a matter of when and what the "spec" parts list is?

That is my goal, I fully understand that a "real" race car safety system is required, that's required no matter what. The variables are MANY after that...SO many things that affect cost and performance....

Since work got in the way of finishing my original post I will continue

Exhaust: I'd say stock headers and anything after that is free, but will require some type of cat bypass electronics so the ECU doesn't go crazy. Of course sound limits are an issue?

Driveline: All stock, must run stock flywheel and stock clutch or an approved version. Must run stock driveshaft and rear diff with stock ratios.

ECU: Must run stock calibration, with only the cat bypass mod....

Alignment: This also depends on the suspension package. Use as many stock parts as possible, but might need aftermarket parts to get a good range of adjust-ability.

Ride Height-track width: There will be limits to both, something lower than stock, but not silly low, riding on bump stops all day isn't the goal.

minimum weight: Another variable, figure a 200lb driver and 20lbs of fuel, plus all safety equipment without having to insanely gut the car....so this is still pending

Electrical: I like the idea of a minimum weight battery to keep costs down, we don't need 4lb Ion batteries....must run stock alt, starter, ignition etc

Aero: None pure stock only, BUT that means the BRZ wing can be ran on the FRS or no wing on BRZ etc.

Fuel: Must run 91 octance (or 93 if 91 is not available) unleaded. No race fuel or fuel additives

Oiling system: No dry sump, This gets complicated, but I would say any oil cooler and accusump system are allowed. Since the goal is reliability.

Cooling: Must run stock radiator. With near stock power levels its fine.

Other: I know lots of people are going to want all kinds of upgrades to the car...carbon fiber this and that, but that is not the point of a spec series. Spec Series are popular because of LOW COST with low running costs. Its not about the speed of the car, but no matter what it will be much faster than Spec Miata or Spec E30.

An example, Spec Z (350 Z) is not really taking off. Why the "spec" is too expensive, big tires, big brakes all equal huge running costs and a FAT car doesn't help either.

Bottom line is this, most racers that aren't married to a certain "marque" don't want to spend more than about $20-30k tops. That means a built competitive car, our cars are not there yet. They need to depreciate more to build a fun to race in field. The other HUGE variable is running costs....our cars should have low running costs due to huge volume of parts shared across other platforms.

My goal of this thread is to start discussion of suitable parts combos and reasons behind it. I have connections to NASA and can easily help develop an approved FT86 class with them, since their only goal is one thing "how many cars will race"

[ayau]

Food for thought. What makes the BRZ/FRS different than the S2000 in terms of creating a spec class? There isn't a spec S2000 race. Why is that? Is it because of the low sales volume relative to the Miatas?

[SubiePig]

Mazda's racing and Mazdaspeed program has a large amount to do with it. They have the largest manufacturer support system in amateur racing that I know of. Discounts on Mazdaspeed and OEM parts to racers, contingency's, etc. The large production numbers of the Miata as well have a large part in it. Most the guys I know that raced spec pinata had 3-4 parts cars laying around and they were always easy to find. Couldn't get away with that on something like the S2k.

[icemang17]

Originally Posted by ayau

Food for thought. What makes the BRZ/FRS different than the S2000 in terms of creating a spec class? There isn't a spec S2000 race. Why is that? Is it because of the low sales volume relative to the Miatas?

The other huge factor is price....S2000's were more expensive and the low volume hurts as well.

The huge variable is TRD & how involved they want to be.....the smart play is like mazdaspeed does for Miata....lots of profit to made there!!!

Think about it, TRD backs the series and offers contingencies etc, then everyone must run their parts.... They could offer everything from sealed engines to suspension and brake kits

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by icemang17

I know Spec Miata and Spec E30 tend to run bilstein shocks, and I am not opposed to this. However an upgrade to coilovers like the PSS systems might be worth it?

If this is something you're pursuing seriously then you should look at the PRO3 class in the PacNW. It's like Spec E30 with just a bit less "spec". This was a class that was designed by the racers and the ruleset is managed by them (not the sanctioning body!). A primary function of the ruleset is to A) allow the car to work better then a Spec E30 and B) keep costs down.
PDF: Scroll to page 69, Section C 1316 PRO3 and read that.
http://static.squarespace.com/static..._2014_full.pdf

I think you'll find it to be a damn near perfect template for developing Spec 86 or PRO86 or whatever.

[revlimit]

What's wrong with using the GT86 (euro) spec? There's already a parts bin from TRD.

[D K]

Can we have naws

[ddeflyer]

Given that the car is meant to run on 93 (to the point that the manual says you should use it), wouldn't it make sense to allow race gas (100 unleaded) or mixed race + 91 to get about 93?

[icemang17]

100 octane isn't a bad idea, just gotta stay away from the witches brew stuff some of the spec miata guys did a couple years ago....you could literally smell it when they were cheating

[gramicci101]

@CSG Mike is already doing something like a spec racing series with the 86 Cup. Thread:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52982

[phastafrican]

This subject has been discussed numerous times -http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=110611. And while I enjoy speculation and planning as much as the next guy, the simple fact is, a spec series is unlikely to happen at the club level until 5-7 years after a car is launched when it's value falls significantly on 1st year models. I can't speak for other sanctioning bodies, but NASA isn't exactly looking to increase its class counts. In fact, the contrary is true as we are currently pushing to consolidate lots of classes. Until such time when there are more 86s in a given class (PTD/PTC) than other competitors, it would take some serious backing from TRD or Scion Racing for this idea to materialize.

On the subject of contingencies and TRD backing... I've been in conversation with Kevin Kutcha at Toyota for months now, and can categorically say that TRD has no immediate plans of supporting a one-make series or even providing contingencies for wheel to wheel racing. I'm still pushing every month with emails and phone calls to all parties involved. Scion Racing Canada just launched an extensive contingency program with incredible payouts last month, and hopefully this will push Scion Racing USA to consider offering something (although neither Kevin nor I have had an actual response to date from Scion Racing USA on the subject... still hopeful). Unless of course you know something I don't.

For the foreseeable future, the twins just need to be built to run in whatever class they fit in, per the sanctioning body and region closest to you. SCCA T4, NASA PTD, USTCC, etc. The more caged race cars we get on track, the easier it will be to attract interest from other racers and 86 owners. In a few years, a spec series could happen... but I would not begin working on a ruleset today, unless you want me to build my car exactly like yours so we can give each other crap about how slow the other is.
FYI: My door bars go in next week and then my cage will be done, so catch up.