2014 86CUP Challenge to NorCal with NCRC

[icemang17]

Great day!!!! Lots of fun!!! I am going to have to run my bone stock FRS in the FT86 cup again!!!

It was fun meeting everyone!!! Took a couple out for rides, MyRx and Pwolf....

The highlight of the day was driving MyRx's FRS....WOW, worlds better than a stock FRS....in every way...power from the supercharger, suspension for the KW coilovers (I would add a touch more rebound damping), grip from the Pilot Super Sports and the BRAKES...wow, stunning...almost too powerful really, since I couldn't heel-toe like I wanted.....it brakes at least as well as my racer with 322mm Brembo 4 pistons and its much lighter with much larger front tires. I got down to a low 2:13 with a passenger or about 4.5 seconds faster than I did in my bone stock FRS with MyRx...

Moving on to a bone stock FRS.....oddly enough I learned some interesting things. Most tires tend to have more grip as lower pressures. So I ran Saturday around 31psi hot....but I increased it to 34 hot on Sunday and the car got much better. The brakes weren't as bad as I remember, but I was intentionally trying to go easy on them and it was much cooler than last time I ran.

My best time on Saturday, on the bypass, was a 2:16.28. Theoretical best was 2:15.52 per Harry's lap timer. I also ran a 2:17.78 with MyRx as a passenger.

On Sunday going over the top (typically 3 seconds slower) I ran a personal best of 2:18.21, theoretical of 2:17.37. Another odd fact was the car handled better with a full tank of gas. It helped settle the tail down, most cars go fastest almost empty since it is lightest.

My impressions of a bone stock FRS.....SILLY loose at the limit...too much really, but its super easy to correct with minimal steering inputs. On a fast lap I am sideways in about 8 of the 15 corners fun but not fast.

2:11 is possible, with better tires and brake pads. I have found tires can make 10 seconds per lap difference. Probably more since stock tires suck so bad. In the same car & driver on the same day. My old lemons racer ran 2:15.1 on Star Specs (lemons trim) & did 2:06.52 on Pirelli Slicks the next session.

[Pwolf]

Originally Posted by PMok

still poring through my videos, but thought I'd share this close encounter I had with an FD RX-7 ... he clearly had power to pass me on the straight, but um... yeah the video is self explanatory.

Saw the tail end of that as I was spectating in the tower. Is it just me or does it look like the driver isn't even trying to correct the spin?

[BigFatFlip]

Originally Posted by PMok

still poring through my videos, but thought I'd share this close encounter I had with an FD RX-7 ... he clearly had power to pass me on the straight, but um... yeah the video is self explanatory.

Looks like he was really pushing it, not following the basic line or even using the whole track (as a wise old instructor said "you paid for the whole track, use it!"). Let me guess, last session of the day?

Originally Posted by Pwolf

Saw the tail end of that as I was spectating in the tower. Is it just me or does it look like the driver isn't even trying to correct the spin?

Gotta give him and Plato credit, they both did the right thing. He took the safer option of "both feet in" which is the more predictable move, allowing Plato a chance to see what has happened and maneuver around safely. If he had tried to save it and fail and lose control (less predictable), Plato could have had a very bad day.

[acx23]

It was great meeting you all yesterday. Hope to see more participants as the season goes on. As for my car/set up:

2014 FRS
* Stoptech Street Performance brake pads
* Stoptech slotted brake rotors
* Stoptech stainless steel brake lines
(I got the kit http://www.maperformance.com/stoptec...ubaru-brz.html)
* Stoptech STR 660 DOT4 brake fluid
* 215/45R-17 Dunlop Direzza ZII
And lastly, -1.2 front camber was dialed in.
Nothing else was done to the car.

2:11.16 was done by my buddy (with me in it) who is an extremely experienced driver, and it was his first time driving a FRS/BRZ. The tires had 4 track days (approx. 18-20 heat cycles) on it before yesterday (Saturday). He would've done sub 2:10 I wasn't riding in it. Out of the 4 laps that he ran, he also did another lap with 2:11.18 so it was not just 1 fast lap. The car & the drive are both consistent.

Just for sh!ts and giggles, I gave other buddy, who is also an experienced driver, my last session of the day and he did 2:13.73 by himself

My best was 2:18.48 with the exactly same setup (but no front camber dialed in and brand new ZII) at T-Hill Bypass.

BW is a bit too far for me, so hope to see you all again at THill or Laguna Seca.

Originally Posted by MyRx

A 2:11 was achieved yesterday at thill with the bypass in a fairly stock FR-S/BR-Z driven by an experienced S2K racer and the owner in the car. I will confirm the owner's mods but I believe he had only ZIIs. The owner is not online often.

Also, @icemang17 piloted my Vortech FR-S to a 2:13 before we had to pit for CEL. He didn't drive it like he did his stock FR-S and the brakes had too much bite. Granted, if he had more time with the car, he would have utilized the brakes to his advantage. 2:18 in his 100% stock FR-S.

Either way, impressive drivers!!!

[PMok]

Originally Posted by Pwolf

Saw the tail end of that as I was spectating in the tower. Is it just me or does it look like the driver isn't even trying to correct the spin?

It does. Based on the line he took and how late he braked, I don't know for sure but I'd think from what I saw he didn't know the track too well. That turn 3 is unique in that using a conventional racing line (go wide and turn in) is not the best way through it. It slopes off-camber on the outside so most cars take a middle or inside line through this turn. So he came over the crest, missed his braking point, realized too late that he was on the wrong side, and tried to turn while still on the brake. I made the exact same mistake my first time at Thunderhill, at this same turn.... some 10+ years ago.

Originally Posted by BigFatFlip

Looks like he was really pushing it, not following the basic line or even using the whole track (as a wise old instructor said "you paid for the whole track, use it!"). Let me guess, last session of the day?

Gotta give him and Plato credit, they both did the right thing. He took the safer option of "both feet in" which is the more predictable move, allowing Plato a chance to see what has happened and maneuver around safely. If he had tried to save it and fail and lose control (less predictable), Plato could have had a very bad day.

Actually it was only the 2nd session of the day. Fortunately no harm done (unless he flat spotted his tires), and hopefully the driver learned something there. I'm glad I hung back a little and had some margin of safety to be able to get around once I saw he was stopped.

[acx23]

I've done something similar, where I broke for too long pass the braking sticks and over the crest. The FD here completely missed the braking zone and continued braking while turning. T3 is an easy place to spin out because of the off camber.

Glad nothing bad happened.

Originally Posted by PMok

still poring through my videos, but thought I'd share this close encounter I had with an FD RX-7 ... he clearly had power to pass me on the straight, but um... yeah the video is self explanatory.

[PMok]

Originally Posted by icemang17

Great day!!!! Lots of fun!!! I am going to have to run my bone stock FRS in the FT86 cup again!!!

It was fun meeting everyone!!! Took a couple out for rides, MyRx and Pwolf....

Great meeting you Brian, and yes it was a lot of fun. Next time I may have to take you up on the offer to ride along with me and give me some pointers. I definitely have room for improvement.

P.S. Oh, and since I paid for the transponder timing and have the printout to compare against my Harry's LapTimer logs, I will add to your statement, the HLT is actually pretty accurate... for sessions 2-5 they were pretty much spot on, being maybe 0.2 s off at most.

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by acx23

I've done something similar, where I broke for too long pass the braking sticks and over the crest. The FD here completely missed the braking zone and continued braking while turning. T3 is an easy place to spin out because of the off camber.

Glad nothing bad happened.

Yep That FD overcooked it and was poorly positioned. I've spun like that at the end of turn 2 believe it or not (too aggressive on the gas on exit) and just did the 2 feet in maneuver and ended up staying on the tarmac facing the right direction...

Have never had a problem with the tail end on turn 3 as I just hug the inside of the corner. Seems to work well.

[icemang17]

2:11 with a passenger with just better tires-brakes and a passenger is quite good....very good really.... 6+ seconds faster than I did bone stock with a passenger...while I am an experienced driver, I tend to be about 3-5 seconds behind the very best I know... Its all about learning and improving your skills

On the RX7 spin....classic "running out of talent" as we like to call it.....the driver was pushing too hard, was setup too wide and didn't slow down enough to get back on the normal line...out there is VERY off camber and tends to have "pebbles" which is always bad for traction....I very rarely if ever try a pass on the outside of 3....too risky....just wait until a better spot

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by icemang17

with just better tires-brakes Its all about learning and improving your skills
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This is true. I am a novice/intermediate driver and I was able to push 2:12(bypass) and consistent 2:13's with fresh RS3's, RCE yellows, and Carbotech XP10 pads.

Interestingly (and frustratingly) enough I became slower with each new mod. First came the KW VIII's and whiteline bushings where I could only manage a 2:15-16 (bypass). Then the supercharger went on and to my dismay no improvement in lap time (2:15ish). Then I took both the coilovers and the supercharger off and installed FR-S Swift springs (they are biased for rear stiffness) with stock shocks and could only manage a 2:15 again (bypass).

Contemplating going back to RCE yellows and fresh RS3's (my RS3's are more than a year old now and balding)...

I learned a valuable lesson: don't mod too fast/frequently. Also, when you find a winning combo that jives with your driving style ... stick with it. I learned to drive Thill on an AWD car that pushed rather than oversteered. The RCE yellows caused the fronts to let go a tiny bit before the rear let go. I liked that feeling even though others RWD drivers would on that kind of driving dynamics on a RWD car. This allowed me to be comfortable with the driving style and made me confident in pushing the car to its limits.

[MyRx]

@acx23 - thanks for the correction and mod list. Ask Plato, I was getting you mixed up with another driver after the driver's meet. Actually, 2 more drivers were interested in the 86Cup after the drivers' meet. Busy morning before I was reminded it was the point-by up first. Nice meeting you and definitely should see you around more often.

@icemang17 - Thanks again for the day's worth of show n tell. I know we received a bonus having you in the 86 community. We did stop by your shop, saw your racers, saw your towers of slicks and radials, and your compradres were inviting. Get that white one rebuilt already haha. And yeah I'll try to get more dampening before the next time your in the seat. I did lower the tire pressures to 32-31 but even that wasn't enough.

@sw20kosh - come on down. You know what to do when time comes, or need extra help and space.

@PMok - nice save! You almost can tell from your vid that you saw it coming.

I managed to walk around during lunch, met a few more 86 owners. Even met a couple AE86 owners interested in the 86Cup. How to mix in their AE86s with our modern ones, hmm why not. One AE86 weighs in at 2200lbs - what category would he be in. Overall a positive environment with the 86 owners.

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by MyRx

@acx23 - thanks for the correction and mod list. Ask Plato, I was getting you mixed up with another driver after the driver's meet. Actually, 2 more drivers were interested in the 86Cup after the drivers' meet. Busy morning before I was reminded it was the point-by up first. Nice meeting you and definitely should see you around more often.

@icemang17 - Thanks again for the day's worth of show n tell. I know we received a bonus having you in the 86 community. We did stop by your shop, saw your racers, saw your towers of slicks and radials, and your compradres were inviting. Get that white one rebuilt already haha. And yeah I'll try to get more dampening before the next time your in the seat. I did lower the tire pressures to 32-31 but even that wasn't enough.

@sw20kosh - come on down. You know what to do when time comes, or need extra help and space.

@PMok - nice save! You almost can tell from your vid that you saw it coming.

I managed to walk around during lunch, met a few more 86 owners. Even met a couple AE86 owners interested in the 86Cup. How to mix in their AE86s with our modern ones, hmm why not. One AE86 weighs in at 2200lbs - what category would he be in. Overall a positive environment with the 86 owners.

What were the ae86 times compared to yours? Seems like the 2 that ran during socals first round were in street and running super modified times (ie as fast as imperious and 2 sec off Mike). Lol. Not sure their experiance level but I would definitely say there needs to be different classing based on the weight alone.

Im in their FB group and could get in touch with them if need be as well

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[PMok]

Originally Posted by MyRx

I managed to walk around during lunch, met a few more 86 owners. Even met a couple AE86 owners interested in the 86Cup. How to mix in their AE86s with our modern ones, hmm why not. One AE86 weighs in at 2200lbs - what category would he be in. Overall a positive environment with the 86 owners.

I think the best thing would be to let them have their own classes parallel to ours. And find someone from their racing community, who's willing to take the 86CUP racing rules/mod lists and convert it to their world. If no one's willing to do that, then you use the simplified set that SoCal 86CUP did in their first year - Over (FI/motor swaps) and Under.

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by PMok

I think the best thing would be to let them have their own classes parallel to ours. And find someone from their racing community, who's willing to take the 86CUP racing rules/mod lists and convert it to their world. If no one's willing to do that, then you use the simplified set that SoCal 86CUP did in their first year - Over (FI/motor swaps) and Under.

Over/under is prob a good idea for them in a seperate class. Granted even then you get simple 20v swaps with under 200hp and then sr20 or f20/22 swaps that are wicked fast. So maybe under/over <200hp/super = or >200hp?

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