Harrop TVS86 Owners Thread

[byun]

Originally Posted by Trefoil

What's the failure rate on the MAP sensor? Reason enough to consider another mfg if I went to an 85mm pulley vs the stock 95?

I put the 85mm pulley last weekend. Was previously running the 90mm. Went from the Delicious 10psi map sensor to the 4bar.



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[Irace86.2.0]

I have their 4 bar map sensor too. I can’t remember what the brand is under the Delicious Tuning sticker.

[Trefoil]

More logs with many more inputs selected:

https://datazap.me/u/trefoil/log-154...4?log=0&data=7


https://datazap.me/u/trefoil/log-154...4?log=1&data=7


https://datazap.me/u/trefoil/log-154...4?log=2&data=7


https://datazap.me/u/trefoil/4th-set?log=0&data=7

I attempted to do 4 logs: following the idle for several minutes, holding around 3k rpm in 3rd, then holding around 45 mph in 3rd, then finally a 2k rpm to redline pull in 3rd for consistency.

Due to my workplace and geographical location I am somewhat limited on controlled data and some capture shows minor elevation change due to driving.

Also, this afternoon was a non-hesitating startup and no bogging issue. After I got done with these logs and into traffic very near to my location, the idle could not settle and I'd see the engine nearly stalling out with the day time running lights blinking off as the engine rpm dipped to far in coworkers' bumper reflections. The car was at e67.

[byun]

Have to say this kit with the 85mm pulley and E85 is amazing. Hitting 13psi and car feels a lot faster than the 90mm pulley I was running before


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[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by byun

Have to say this kit with the 85mm pulley and E85 is amazing. Hitting 13psi and car feels a lot faster than the 90mm pulley I was running before


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I'm in the same boat. You can get lazy with shifting because it is not needed in a lot of situations.

I have 265's on the rears, and I can lose traction mid way through a pull in 3rd, and I have a conservative tune. I don't see how anyone could want much more power for the street.

[johan]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I'm in the same boat. You can get lazy with shifting because it is not needed in a lot of situations.

I have 265's on the rears, and I can lose traction mid way through a pull in 3rd, and I have a conservative tune. I don't see how anyone could want much more power for the street.

In the rain? In a straight line? This makes no sense to me. What have you done to your alignment? There's no world where this engine with a supercharger should lose traction in 3rd gear in normal situations, even with smaller tires. I can't even begin to fathom it with 265's.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by johan

In the rain? In a straight line? This makes no sense to me. What have you done to your alignment? There's no world where this engine with a supercharger should lose traction in 3rd gear in normal situations, even with smaller tires. I can't even begin to fathom it with 265's.

I’m not talking about leaving traction burn marks for ten feet. I’m generally talking about losing grip causing the traction control system to cut throttle and the warning light coming on. It could be because road conditions weren’t perfect or because of minor wheel hop, or because the tires haven’t heated up enough, but it is decently repeatable. It wasn’t because of rain. We don’t have rain. And it happens mid pull—not at the beginning.

[johan]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I’m not talking about leaving traction burn marks for ten feet. I’m generally talking about losing grip causing the traction control system to cut throttle and the warning light coming on. It could be because road conditions weren’t perfect or because of minor wheel hop, or because the tires haven’t heated up enough, but it is decently repeatable. It wasn’t because of rain. We don’t have rain. And it happens mid pull—not at the beginning.

I just don't get it. I used to put down 400bhp on the stock all-season 215s in my FWD Civic Si in 3rd gear no problem.

I have 100% traction with 335bhp (yeah I've already modded it to add power) in 1st gear on 265s in the Cayman.
I had 100% traction with roughly 320bhp (on e20) in 1st gear on 245s in the BRZ.

Maybe your suspension is way too stiff? Something isn't right imo. Sorry if this is derailing the thread, but I am really surprised by this.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by johan

I just don't get it. I used to put down 400bhp on the stock all-season 215s in my FWD Civic Si in 3rd gear no problem.

I have 100% traction with 335bhp (yeah I've already modded it to add power) in 1st gear on 265s in the Cayman.
I had 100% traction with roughly 320bhp (on e20) in 1st gear on 245s in the BRZ.

Maybe your suspension is way too stiff? Something isn't right imo. Sorry if this is derailing the thread, but I am really surprised by this.

How was the torque on the Civic? Turbo'd?

I'm hitting about 13 psi at redline, and I am running E85. Well technically stock fuel is like E06 (not even E10) according to my readout, and the E85 is like E76, but yea, the gains from E85 are for real, especially the torque. The E85 figures for the Edelbrock kit on the DT tune are around 320whp and 250wtq with the stock pulley. I'm assuming I am close to that, plus or minus.

I'm lowered on Eibach Pro springs and that is it. The 2013's are not as soft as the other year 86's, but I don't know if that is just the springs or the struts too. I'm definitely getting traction most of the time. Even with decent roads and warm tires, the car can lose traction mid run through 1st gear and 2nd gear.

Sonoma County is not known for having very good roads, so small amounts of gravel, pot hole patches and unevenness exist everywhere, and that is definitely contributing to losing grip in third gear mid pull. That is kind of why I said that anymore power for the street seems silly. Sure, it could be used on the highway or in good conditions, but for everyday driving, I am good how it is. Zach offered to add more torque, I'm guessing my making the car more aggressive, but I told him I was good with what I had.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I’m not talking about leaving traction burn marks for ten feet. I’m generally talking about losing grip causing the traction control system to cut throttle and the warning light coming on. It could be because road conditions weren’t perfect or because of minor wheel hop, or because the tires haven’t heated up enough, but it is decently repeatable. It wasn’t because of rain. We don’t have rain. And it happens mid pull—not at the beginning.

What kind of tires are you running?

Even with low grip tires, at 360whp, I don't have traction issues in *2nd* gear, on an average road.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

What kind of tires are you running?

Even with low grip tires, at 360whp, I don't have traction issues in *2nd* gear, on an average road.

BF Goodrich Sport Comp 2. Cheap sporty tires.

If by saying 'you have no traction issues' you mean the traction light (or loss of grip warning light) never flashes during a straight line pull then that is odd. Your roads must be a lot better than mine or suspension/tire setup a lot better. It really isn't hard for me when I go WOT. Like I said, even third gear sometimes, but those times are mostly on less than optimal conditions, which is pretty common in my area.

I'm in the country. Our streets and most of our country roads are pretty beat up. There are pothole patches that make the roads uneven. The country roads are often rounded and broken off on the edges. There are lots of unevenness from where the road has gone soft and sunken in, and there are elevation changes. We are thirty minutes from the coast too so there can be mild dew on the road surface at night. None of that makes for great traction. Even with my brother in the passenger seat, with the extra weight, we were losing traction while Hooning around. A few times I tried to power through the traction system, thinking I could over-power it, but the car goes from trying to temporarily cut power and break individual wheels, to straight up slamming on the brakes. More power really wouldn't be necessary for 90% of the time while in town. It would only be good for the highways and on a few of the better roads. Considering how much canyon driving I do on these roads, more power would just be silly too, making it that much harder to roll on power out of turns and modulate power over the crap surfaces. On a track, it would be a completely different story.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

BF Goodrich Sport Comp 2. Cheap sporty tires.

If by saying 'you have no traction issues' you mean the traction light (or loss of grip warning light) never flashes during a straight line pull then that is odd. Your roads must be a lot better than mine or suspension/tire setup a lot better. It really isn't hard for me when I go WOT. Like I said, even third gear sometimes, but those times are mostly on less than optimal conditions, which is pretty common in my area.

I'm in the country. Our streets and most of our country roads are pretty beat up. There are pothole patches that make the roads uneven. The country roads are often rounded and broken off on the edges. There are lots of unevenness from where the road has gone soft and sunken in, and there are elevation changes. We are thirty minutes from the coast too so there can be mild dew on the road surface at night. None of that makes for great traction. Even with my brother in the passenger seat, with the extra weight, we were losing traction while Hooning around. A few times I tried to power through the traction system, thinking I could over-power it, but the car goes from trying to temporarily cut power and break individual wheels, to straight up slamming on the brakes. More power really wouldn't be necessary for 90% of the time while in town. It would only be good for the highways and on a few of the better roads. Considering how much canyon driving I do on these roads, more power would just be silly too, making it that much harder to roll on power out of turns and modulate power over the crap surfaces. On a track, it would be a completely different story.

There's your issue.

[johan]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

How was the torque on the Civic? Turbo'd?

I'm hitting about 13 psi at redline, and I am running E85. Well technically stock fuel is like E06 (not even E10) according to my readout, and the E85 is like E76, but yea, the gains from E85 are for real, especially the torque. The E85 figures for the Edelbrock kit on the DT tune are around 320whp and 250wtq with the stock pulley. I'm assuming I am close to that, plus or minus.

I'm lowered on Eibach Pro springs and that is it. The 2013's are not as soft as the other year 86's, but I don't know if that is just the springs or the struts too. I'm definitely getting traction most of the time. Even with decent roads and warm tires, the car can lose traction mid run through 1st gear and 2nd gear.

Sonoma County is not known for having very good roads, so small amounts of gravel, pot hole patches and unevenness exist everywhere, and that is definitely contributing to losing grip in third gear mid pull. That is kind of why I said that anymore power for the street seems silly. Sure, it could be used on the highway or in good conditions, but for everyday driving, I am good how it is. Zach offered to add more torque, I'm guessing my making the car more aggressive, but I told him I was good with what I had.

Civic had 300lbft at 4500 rpm, that little K20 took 17psi every day like a champ for 2 years. My wife came home with so many kill stories.

I agree that you have plenty of power, certainly won't debate that. I was never unhappy with the power output on my BRZ with the blower or the turbo.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

What kind of tires are you running?

Even with low grip tires, at 360whp, I don't have traction issues in *2nd* gear, on an average road.

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

BF Goodrich Sport Comp 2. Cheap sporty tires.

If by saying 'you have no traction issues' you mean the traction light (or loss of grip warning light) never flashes during a straight line pull then that is odd. Your roads must be a lot better than mine or suspension/tire setup a lot better. It really isn't hard for me when I go WOT. Like I said, even third gear sometimes, but those times are mostly on less than optimal conditions, which is pretty common in my area.

I'm in the country. Our streets and most of our country roads are pretty beat up. There are pothole patches that make the roads uneven. The country roads are often rounded and broken off on the edges. There are lots of unevenness from where the road has gone soft and sunken in, and there are elevation changes. We are thirty minutes from the coast too so there can be mild dew on the road surface at night. None of that makes for great traction. Even with my brother in the passenger seat, with the extra weight, we were losing traction while Hooning around. A few times I tried to power through the traction system, thinking I could over-power it, but the car goes from trying to temporarily cut power and break individual wheels, to straight up slamming on the brakes. More power really wouldn't be necessary for 90% of the time while in town. It would only be good for the highways and on a few of the better roads. Considering how much canyon driving I do on these roads, more power would just be silly too, making it that much harder to roll on power out of turns and modulate power over the crap surfaces. On a track, it would be a completely different story.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

There's your issue.

Bingo. You should be running a Max Performance Summer tire instead of a low end UHP like that. The SC2 is fine at 180-200hp, but you need a way better tire for higher power. Throw a PS4S on it and see how things change.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by johan

Bingo. You should be running a Max Performance Summer tire instead of a low end UHP like that. The SC2 is fine at 180-200hp, but you need a way better tire for higher power. Throw a PS4S on it and see how things change.

I’ll do that when the time comes. It is probably more of the road conditions because you both mentioned running crap/basic/stock tires with more power than me without any loss of traction during straight line pulls WOT.