|
Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting What these cars were built for! |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
10-11-2018, 03:41 PM | #1 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Drives: tbd
Location: S NJ
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
New to FT86 - track/street questions
Hey all- new member here. Great site! Been poking around it a bit…
I am looking to get back on the track after being away for almost 10 yrs. Lived in Houston about an hour from TWS and used to run HPDE’s with the LSR PCA in a street/track 964. Was a great track car, 247hp, lightly modded, track friendly, higher mileage, seats, harnesses, brakes etc. Great seat feel with ps delete, lsd, and just ABS. Fun car… Sold the car to a buddy when the kiddos started to get into sports etc and we moved away. We live in South Jersey now about an hour from NJMP and with the kids in college/HS seems like a perfect time to get back on the track, plus the wife says I need a hobby! Oh well I should listen to her right? Started looking for another Pcar but came across the 86 (BRZ) and DROVE one…WTF! great car, fun car, great feel…so now looking to purchase either used or new. This car would be track focused and street legal to start… Initially would run the car stock and only upgrade brake fluid and race pads. Anything else? Read some threads here about the 2017+ BRZ with PP being a good starting point for track/street duty…so been shopping around: Suby dealer who had a few on hand…2x 2017 brz limited w/pp and a 2018 with the 50th pkg and PP, all with discounts of around $2000-$3000 off MSRP. The 2018 has 2.9%... But a yota dealer has a 2017 86 base with trd exhaust, trd wheels, trd spoiler for $4300 off MSRP! & a 2018 GT w/ TRD sways and lowering kit for $3430 off MSRP…are the TRD adds really worth anything over the brz PP? Also there are a couple used low mileage base 2017 86’s around in the $18-$20k (<20k miles) and a 2017 brz limited w/ PP for $23k (30k miles). So what the better platform to work off of? Should I try to focus on only cars with PP for a start or do I find a cheap solid base car to add brakes, suspension, etc to? Thoughts on some of the deals above? Seems like I should be able to squeeze a bit more $ off of the new to get to almost used pricing... Thanks in advance for the help! Bill I love/hate the internet as you can research and be informed but can over analyze everything to death…lol |
10-11-2018, 04:06 PM | #2 | |
Senior Misanthrope
Join Date: Sep 2014
Drives: 2015 BRZ Series.Blue CWP
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,490
Thanks: 1,743
Thanked 1,168 Times in 645 Posts
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
As for PP vs non-PP, it all depends on what you expect to do with the car. The stock (non-PP) brake calipers can do pretty well with proper pads. If you ever foresee yourself upgrading to a BBK like the AP Sprint Kit, then the PP would be a waste of money. But if you'd rather keep things simple, the added heat capacity of the PP brakes certainly can't hurt. Edit: I assume you heard about TWS? Shame. It was my favorite track. Edit2: If I were in your position looking to get an 86 to track, I would go for a lightly used 2015 or 2016. They have the updated coil packs and valve fixes so they're a bit more reliable than 2013-14. If you ever plan to boost, maybe look at a 2017 because their motors have some added reinforcement. (Note that I have no actual information on whether 2017+ handle boost better.) |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to kch For This Useful Post: | atomicalex (10-15-2018) |
10-11-2018, 04:13 PM | #3 |
btr.life
Join Date: Aug 2015
Drives: 2022 GR86
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,099
Thanks: 662
Thanked 1,094 Times in 491 Posts
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Welcome!
There are a dozen different ways you could go and I'm sure you will get as many replies with different options I would recommend sticking with a 2017+ car (having owned a '13 and '17) unless you are trying to get started on a small budget (doesn't seem like it). Personally, I would skip a PP package car, as I would get better track oriented brakes anyways from the aftermarket. So, from your list I like the 86 with the TRD sway-bars and springs the best. It gives you an improved handling experience out of the box and stock brakes will work fine with the right pads/fluid. Or, roll your own and buy a used car and add whatever parts you want as needed. In any case, I would go with a 2017+ for sure.
__________________
|
10-11-2018, 04:15 PM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Drives: 2017 Subaru BRZ Limited
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 619
Thanks: 3,059
Thanked 595 Times in 300 Posts
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
I'm far from an expert here, so there's others that'll probably chime in that are more knowledgeable, but I'd advise that you plan ahead based on your budget. This is all just my personal opinion. At the very least I'd recommend you consider doing the following to take a stock 2018 BRZ to a state where it'll be competent on track and primarily limited by the driver rather than the car:
1. Better tires, possibly different wheels. (If you get a PP/tS it comes with better wheels, and maybe better tires). I'd recommend a 200tw extreme sport tire like a Yokohama AD08R, Direzza ZIII, or Hankook RS4, avoid RE71Rs because they don't have good durability on track although their grip is great. Wider is not better unless you are needing it to hold power. 2. Upgrade the brakes. (PP/tS come with Brembos already) At least to start out with you can get by with better fluid (Motul RBF660 is a good start, although a lot of people swear by Castrol SRF), braided brake lines, and good quality track pads (ask @CSG Mike for recommendations, but probably something like a Ferodo DS1.11 or a Carbotech XP10). You don't need a BBK on this car at stock power, but it can help cut some weight. The PP is a good value just for the wheels and brakes, honestly. 3. Cut weight. Get a rear seat delete kit (Shrader Performance makes a good one for a reasonable price), get rid of the pointless backseats. Empty all the junk out of the trunk. Empty out the glove box of everything but a tire gauge, your wheel lock key, and your registration paperwork. Ditch the cup holder in the center console. Consider buying a lightweight battery setup for ~$300 to cut another 25 pounds off the front. 4. Get low and get aligned. You can do coilovers + LCAs or you can keep it a little cheaper by doing lowering springs, camber bolts, and LCAs. RCE Yellows or T2s are a good perf/price point option. Get a performance alignment from a reputable local shop, not a shitty toe n go at a chain store. 5. Get and install an engine oil cooler. I recommend the Jackson Racing or Mishimoto kit, or make your own buying hoses/fittings/radiator/sandwich plate on a race parts website (Summit, et al). 6. Get on track. Everything I've suggested will maintain the DD aspect of the car, with /some/ trade-offs in NVH, but will definitely make it a beast on track for what it is. It'll certainly be some of the most fun you've had for the money short of buying a Miata |
The Following User Says Thank You to Tristor For This Useful Post: | atomicalex (10-15-2018) |
10-11-2018, 04:29 PM | #5 |
[insert cool phrase here]
Join Date: Aug 2015
Drives: BRZ Premium
Location: Central Coast CA
Posts: 2,369
Thanks: 709
Thanked 1,558 Times in 930 Posts
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
If you can get a performance pack get it. That's if you can't price out a cheaper deal than a normal 86 with aftermarket springs/struts/bbk. That's really all there is to the performance pack.
Then again.....if you want to pay $25-30k you can find better slightly older better cars than the 86/BRZ. Just saying.
__________________
New daily driver - Subaru BRZ Premium
Weekend fun/track car - '91 MR2 Turbo Gen3 Old daily driver - '88 MR2 Supercharged |
10-11-2018, 04:47 PM | #6 |
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 14,530
Thanks: 8,920
Thanked 14,176 Times in 6,835 Posts
Mentioned: 966 Post(s)
Tagged: 14 Thread(s)
|
Do you know what you want out of the car? How extensively do you see yourself modifying it?
If this will be a track rat, start with a base model; the savings over the limited trim + PP will easily cover the differences in parts such as brakes, with your own choice in braking system. I started with a base model. This is the result. [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Gs4sRuNbX4&t=1s[/ame] |
10-11-2018, 04:47 PM | #7 |
Reformed
Join Date: Sep 2014
Drives: '23 GRC, '11 Prius, '04 RAV4
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 1,313
Thanks: 1,234
Thanked 1,133 Times in 588 Posts
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
if you care about the best bang for your buck and don't mind sourcing the upgrades, then my vote goes for a used one for sure...there's always a couple of barely broken in used twins with a nice discount on the market from owners who didn't realize what they got themselves into ^^ I would only get a new one if ya got the money to blow..
|
10-11-2018, 04:54 PM | #8 | |
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 14,530
Thanks: 8,920
Thanked 14,176 Times in 6,835 Posts
Mentioned: 966 Post(s)
Tagged: 14 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
The OEM PP's brake system is significantly heavier than the base system's weight (iirc around 16 lbs?). Subaru is not stupid; they made a very conscious choice to increase the weight here. Likewise, look at much faster cars as an example; they never compromise the brakes for weight savings. The PP is a fantastic value if you're already going to get the Limited trim, but the Limited trim + PP, over a base, for someone who doesn't want the limited features, is not worth it, IMO. The difference in cost between a base and PP, covered my cost on CSG Brembo GT BBK, and a OEM Audio+ Reference 500Q audio system. Yeah, I have a full audio system in my track car. |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to CSG Mike For This Useful Post: | atomicalex (10-15-2018) |
10-11-2018, 05:48 PM | #9 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Drives: 2017 Subaru BRZ Limited
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 619
Thanks: 3,059
Thanked 595 Times in 300 Posts
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
I was thinking about the weight savings from the lighter calipers vs base. I'm not sure about the weight of the PP brakes, but for instance an AP Racing Sprint or Endurance BBK are both lighter overall than the stock brakes despite the rotors being heavier because they have aluminum calipers w/ steel pistons vs steel calipers. I think the RR kits and others based on Wilwood Forged SuperLites are also lighter than stock for the calipers. Of course the rotors are heavier and larger than stock to increase thermal mass. At least in the case of the AP Racing Sprint BBK the weight difference vs base is that they're lighter overall. I'm sure this is not the case always though. |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Tristor For This Useful Post: | atomicalex (10-15-2018) |
10-11-2018, 06:08 PM | #10 | |
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 14,530
Thanks: 8,920
Thanked 14,176 Times in 6,835 Posts
Mentioned: 966 Post(s)
Tagged: 14 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
The AP Sprint/Enduro calipers are much lighter than stock, but the rotors used with those systems are also much lighter than stock. Heat from braking goes into the rotors to be dissipated. While those Sprint/Enduro rotors can dissipate heat MUCH faster than stock, the higher temp spikes seen also mean that the disk is now being exposed to much, MUCH larger temperature swings, creating thermal based stressed. What happens when you throw a hot glass into cold water? It cracks. Why does it crack? Because of thermal stress. Now imagine doing that to your rotor over and over and over on a race track. Versus, throwing a warm glass into cold water, and not having any issues. The lighter caliper is a benefit for sure though. Zero issues there. Also, nice threadripper! Here's mine https://www.instagram.com/p/Bc8y2-ehG4F |
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to CSG Mike For This Useful Post: | atomicalex (10-15-2018), Tristor (10-11-2018) |
10-12-2018, 12:06 PM | #11 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Drives: tbd
Location: S NJ
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Thanks for the feedback and yes heard about TWS...great track. Did you see the pics after the hurricane were they used the track for flood cars?
__________________
Look, let me explain something to you. I'm not Mr. Lebowski. You're Mr. Lebowski. I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. That, or His Dudeness … Duder … or El Duderino, if, you know, you're not into the whole brevity thing.
|
10-12-2018, 12:09 PM | #12 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Drives: tbd
Location: S NJ
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
leaning in that direction...used base as a platform to start with...
__________________
Look, let me explain something to you. I'm not Mr. Lebowski. You're Mr. Lebowski. I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. That, or His Dudeness … Duder … or El Duderino, if, you know, you're not into the whole brevity thing.
|
10-12-2018, 12:20 PM | #13 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Drives: tbd
Location: S NJ
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
__________________
Look, let me explain something to you. I'm not Mr. Lebowski. You're Mr. Lebowski. I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. That, or His Dudeness … Duder … or El Duderino, if, you know, you're not into the whole brevity thing.
|
|
10-12-2018, 12:27 PM | #14 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Drives: tbd
Location: S NJ
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
To me the 86 platform is a hidden gem with lower consumables, coupe, japanese reliability, and a decent look. The track presence will continue to grow, how could it not?
__________________
Look, let me explain something to you. I'm not Mr. Lebowski. You're Mr. Lebowski. I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. That, or His Dudeness … Duder … or El Duderino, if, you know, you're not into the whole brevity thing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Ohlins Road & Track - settings (clicks) for street/track/ax | dp1 | Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing | 39 | 06-27-2016 09:36 PM |
Tein Street Flex Questions | WolF_RS | Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing | 3 | 06-02-2016 02:27 AM |
Street Mod questions | Shit Luck | Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting | 61 | 10-18-2015 04:59 PM |
Megan Racing Coilovers - Street / Track / EZ STREET - Starting at $699 Shipped | GuerillaRacing | Brakes, Suspension, Chassis | 149 | 05-12-2015 05:53 PM |
New FT86 Owner, some questions. | Parix | Mechanical Maintenance (Oil, Fluids, Break-In, Servicing) | 2 | 05-26-2014 07:41 PM |