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FR-S / BRZ vs.... Area to discuss the FR-S/BRZ against its competitors [NO STREET RACING]


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Old 04-20-2018, 10:10 AM   #15
Tcoat
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Originally Posted by roddy View Post
I've had 2 of those first gen Accords, a first gen Prelude, and a first gen Civic. The Accords were fun cars, and the Prelude even more so, but the first generation Civic was something special...if you've ever driven one, you'll know what I mean.
I hope you mean "special" in a shortbus kind of way.
I drove a 74 Civic for a few weeks while one of my cars was being repaired back in 77. The thing was the most "special" piece of garbage I have ever sat behind the wheel of. A very optimistic 0 to 60 of about 20 seconds (20 seconds of terror as the engine revved like crap and the car slowly accelerated into a merge). A COG that somehow managed to be about 5 feet above the car. You crossed your fingers every time you went to start it and then just hoped it actually kept running. At 3 years old it had more holes rusted through it than most 20 year old cars now.
Oh god I am having flashbacks!!!!


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Old 04-20-2018, 10:41 AM   #16
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I hope you mean "special" in a shortbus kind of way.
I drove a 74 Civic for a few weeks while one of my cars was being repaired back in 77. The thing was the most "special" piece of garbage I have ever sat behind the wheel of. A very optimistic 0 to 60 of about 20 seconds (20 seconds of terror as the engine revved like crap and the car slowly accelerated into a merge). A COG that somehow managed to be about 5 feet above the car. You crossed your fingers every time you went to start it and then just hoped it actually kept running. At 3 years old it had more holes rusted through it than most 20 year old cars now.
Oh god I am having flashbacks!!!!



Hahaha! We had the first CVCC version ('75) when I was a kid; I remember squeezing over the back seat, into the rear cargo area with my brother and having juuuust enough room for us to pop our heads up and look out the back window. Instant death, if we were ever to get rearended, but hey - it was the mid 70s...
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Old 04-20-2018, 11:45 AM   #17
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MR2 is the best, was looking for an AW11 before I bought my BRZ, but everything I saw had some kind of rust or major leaking issues.
Yeah, the AW10 and SW20 both tend to be from the era when Japanese cars were still kind of known as rust buckets, especially up north. The ZZW30 is a bit different. I do not think that I have ever seen a rusted out Spyder. I have seen some with rust on the undercarriage, axles and suspension bolts.

The Spyder is the lightest and most nimble of the MR2s. It does lack storage space. You have to be creative with that. It also has a tendency for the stock 1ZZ engines to become an oil burner and eventually fail. That is especially true on the early models. Thus the 2ZZ swap is very popular for drastically increased performance and much improved reliability while retaining OBDII compatibility.

Mine is a 2000 with 82K miles and it is cleaner than most daily driven 2 year old cars.
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Old 04-20-2018, 11:53 AM   #18
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Jealous. All I see on the twisties are minivan brake lights.
I know that feeling, I used to live in the Bay Area. Minivans and bike riders. Now I'm surrounding by empty twisty roads.

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Can I throw the Lotus Elise in that category? It's not ~*that*~ fast, and doesn't make much power at all, and it's a momentum car. But it's one of the nicest cars to drive on public roads.
I don't know if I agree with this. I've driven an Elise around for several days and while it's fun on public roads you can't get close to pushing the car to the limit without risking a felony. I feel like you really need a closed track to see the car truly shine.

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I've had 2 of those first gen Accords, a first gen Prelude, and a first gen Civic. The Accords were fun cars, and the Prelude even more so, but the first generation Civic was something special...if you've ever driven one, you'll know what I mean.
I couldn't watch the video because I'm at work, but did the DC2 Integra make the list? I've owned a lot of cars, but my 1999 GSR was easily one of the best driver's cars I've ever owned. I really wish I didn't have to sell it.
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Old 04-20-2018, 01:22 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
I hope you mean "special" in a shortbus kind of way.
I drove a 74 Civic for a few weeks while one of my cars was being repaired back in 77. The thing was the most "special" piece of garbage I have ever sat behind the wheel of. A very optimistic 0 to 60 of about 20 seconds (20 seconds of terror as the engine revved like crap and the car slowly accelerated into a merge). A COG that somehow managed to be about 5 feet above the car. You crossed your fingers every time you went to start it and then just hoped it actually kept running. At 3 years old it had more holes rusted through it than most 20 year old cars now.
Oh god I am having flashbacks!!!!



LOL, I didn't feel that way...guess I had one of the good (later) ones. Mine was a '78, and worked pretty good...even with the 2-speed 'Hondamatic' (think powerglide with a manual valve body). The car only weighed 1500lbs or so (probably less, accounting for their rust issues). It lived a brutal couple of years as a pizza delivery car and never missed a beat.
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Old 04-20-2018, 01:28 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by funwheeldrive View Post
I couldn't watch the video because I'm at work, but did the DC2 Integra make the list? I've owned a lot of cars, but my 1999 GSR was easily one of the best driver's cars I've ever owned. I really wish I didn't have to sell it.


No, but a Chevette did!
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Old 04-20-2018, 01:47 PM   #21
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I know that feeling, I used to live in the Bay Area. Minivans and bike riders. Now I'm surrounding by empty twisty roads.



I don't know if I agree with this. I've driven an Elise around for several days and while it's fun on public roads you can't get close to pushing the car to the limit without risking a felony. I feel like you really need a closed track to see the car truly shine.



I couldn't watch the video because I'm at work, but did the DC2 Integra make the list? I've owned a lot of cars, but my 1999 GSR was easily one of the best driver's cars I've ever owned. I really wish I didn't have to sell it.
i think the elise qualifies. originally it wasnt too fast in a straight line and even when it did get fast, you really have to work the engine to move it. things have to be done right for it to be fast. i still feel like its a momentum car. probably the fastest momentum car but it does all the things that my miatas and brz do but amplified. i feel like its the fastest "slow car fast" for better or worse.
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Old 04-20-2018, 01:47 PM   #22
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LOL, I didn't feel that way...guess I had one of the good (later) ones. Mine was a '78, and worked pretty good...even with the 2-speed 'Hondamatic' (think powerglide with a manual valve body). The car only weighed 1500lbs or so (probably less, accounting for their rust issues). It lived a brutal couple of years as a pizza delivery car and never missed a beat.
Your love of it is probably more nostalgia based than anything.
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Old 04-20-2018, 02:15 PM   #23
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i think the elise qualifies. originally it wasnt too fast in a straight line and even when it did get fast, you really have to work the engine to move it. things have to be done right for it to be fast. i still feel like its a momentum car. probably the fastest momentum car but it does all the things that my miatas and brz do but amplified. i feel like its the fastest "slow car fast" for better or worse.
I think one of the things that bummed me out about the car is that the VVTL-i wouldn't engage until 7000rpm. By that point I was already well past legal speed limits. It is definitely a momentum car, but I found it hard to build enough momentum on public roads to really chuck the car into corners. It is so incredibly sharp and precise that all my usual driving roads felt boring. It felt like all the potential was being wasted by not taking every corner at 50mph.

If I actually owned the car and spent more time with it I would probably feel comfortable pushing it more, but I was only renting it and have heard horror stories about how easy it is to total those cars by damaging the tub.

I rented the Elise thinking I would buy one for myself. Afterwards I did a lot of thinking and bought my FRS instead.
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Old 04-20-2018, 04:52 PM   #24
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I think one of the things that bummed me out about the car is that the VVTL-i wouldn't engage until 7000rpm. By that point I was already well past legal speed limits. It is definitely a momentum car, but I found it hard to build enough momentum on public roads to really chuck the car into corners. It is so incredibly sharp and precise that all my usual driving roads felt boring. It felt like all the potential was being wasted by not taking every corner at 50mph.

If I actually owned the car and spent more time with it I would probably feel comfortable pushing it more, but I was only renting it and have heard horror stories about how easy it is to total those cars by damaging the tub.

I rented the Elise thinking I would buy one for myself. Afterwards I did a lot of thinking and bought my FRS instead.
I can relate to all of that. Especially since it's a tiny mid engined car. I try not to think about where the limits are but rather how the car behaves there and the lotus is so communicative that's its a pure joy. The brz is good at that too but it's like reading a vivid review of a sports event while the Elise is like being at center court. You get the picture but it's not the same. I could probably talk about this all day but I'm just glad to own both.
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Old 04-21-2018, 01:43 AM   #25
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I can relate to all of that. Especially since it's a tiny mid engined car. I try not to think about where the limits are but rather how the car behaves there and the lotus is so communicative that's its a pure joy. The brz is good at that too but it's like reading a vivid review of a sports event while the Elise is like being at center court. You get the picture but it's not the same. I could probably talk about this all day but I'm just glad to own both.
Pretty much how I feel about the Elise. We have one of the second-gen, Toyota motor, pre-traction control ones. It see Funwheel's point about it actually being pretty fast when you do reach grip limits, but certainly getting to that point takes a decent amount of time-- it's definitely a car where you can be using full throttle all the time on public roads without going ludicrously fast, and the handling + feedback are just exceptional. You don't actually have to push the car very hard to make it hold up a score-card on your driving, which is a beautiful thing.
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Old 04-22-2018, 09:28 PM   #26
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I don't know what's wrong with me but I have a love affair with older celicas. I wish my frs revved as smoothly as my last celica. I know, I know, selective memory lol.
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Old 04-23-2018, 11:48 AM   #27
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My old two liter '73 Mercury Capri was a lot of fun to drive fast. In the mid to late 70's I used mine to teach my wife and some friends skid control/drifting. It was a blast on a dirt or gravel road (neither of which I'd willing take the BRZ down today).
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Old 04-23-2018, 09:30 PM   #28
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We used to call my friends Capri a mercury "debris"
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