Minimum for track day.

[Jamestl]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I reread his post this morning and he meant $35 for the two SPC bolts. I just put in the lower bolt this past weekend and seems to be legit, similar experience, low to mid -1 degrees with just the upper cam bolt, seems to be over -2 with both, but I'm changing too much at once to be accurate about it.

If I had a time machine I'd just buy the lower bolt and do what you suggest and save myself ~$20 (it wasn't well known that the 14mm for the lower hole was easily available, everybody listed the 16mm upper bolt as the only camber bolt that fit), but I think slipping is more likely to happen by doing that, the two cam bolts feel pretty solid as long as they're torqued down.


edit: fwiw I got the car aligned in September, a week or two later I got rear ended, two weekends ago I put alignment tools on the car and read within 0.1 degrees of what the alignment shop set them at, so properly torqued a good cam bolt should be solid. That's through a car crash and several thousand miles of driving, a couple autox events sliding around.

HI there -- for the sake of those who come after and look at this thread for information (god know I do that plenty!), can you clarify your post? I read your post a few times and couldn't quite make out what you would do as the first paragraph seems to contradict the second one.

[Lynxis]

Originally Posted by Jamestl

HI there -- for the sake of those who come after and look at this thread for information (god know I do that plenty!), can you clarify your post? I read your post a few times and couldn't quite make out what you would do as the first paragraph seems to contradict the second one.

For full adustability, you need 4 bolts in total but the bolts are sold in sets of 2 so you need to buy 2 sets of bolts. Someone mentioned they found a set of SPC bolts for $18 which would be just a little over $35 for the 2 sets.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Jamestl

HI there -- for the sake of those who come after and look at this thread for information (god know I do that plenty!), can you clarify your post? I read your post a few times and couldn't quite make out what you would do as the first paragraph seems to contradict the second one.

Having two cam bolts from SPC (upper and lower, 16mm and 14mm) is nice, they feel consistent and I have had good reliability with the 16mm bolts. However I am cheap and would have used the lower 14mm SPC bolt and swapped out the bolt in the upper hole for the OE lower bolt (as per the OEM camber adjustment method) if I had known that was an option.

2x SPC bolt - nice, not too hard on the wallet
1x SPC bolt + 1x OE camber bolt - cheaper alternative

I fully believe both options are viable to get more than -2 degrees and I'm using camber plates to get over -3 (I actually had the camber plates before the camber bolts). Not everybody wants maximum camber, or certain rulesets may limit the options available, I just wanted to chime in that I've got 2x camber bolts in my car and I'm happy with them, I don't think it was a waste of money, but on the flipside the 1x aftermarket bolt 1x OE bolt is certainly a viable option imho.

Originally Posted by finch1750

And yeah, I didn't realize SPC bolts were that cheap now (I paid like $20-25 for mine IIRC and I thought that was about the cost of one set from Whiteline lol).

Whiteline bolts were like $40 initially. I fell for that one because I wasn't certain on the SPC's working.

[Jamestl]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Having two cam bolts from SPC (upper and lower, 16mm and 14mm) is nice, they feel consistent and I have had good reliability with the 16mm bolts. However I am cheap and would have used the lower 14mm SPC bolt and swapped out the bolt in the upper hole for the OE lower bolt (as per the OEM camber adjustment method) if I had known that was an option.

2x SPC bolt - nice, not too hard on the wallet
1x SPC bolt + 1x OE camber bolt - cheaper alternative

I fully believe both options are viable to get more than -2 degrees and I'm using camber plates to get over -3 (I actually had the camber plates before the camber bolts). Not everybody wants maximum camber, or certain rulesets may limit the options available, I just wanted to chime in that I've got 2x camber bolts in my car and I'm happy with them, I don't think it was a waste of money, but on the flipside the 1x aftermarket bolt 1x OE bolt is certainly a viable option imho.

Got it, thank you for clarifying. For my knowledge (since I don't have a way to do my own alignment measurements), do you think the 1x SPC + 1 OE camber bolt option gets you as much camber as 2x SPC?

My shop told me no, but who knows maybe they just didn't push hard enough or something... The shop owner had a BRZ so I assume they weren't just bullshitting me (and I didn't buy the 2nd set of SPCs from them, so they weren't pushing products on me).

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Jamestl

do you think the 1x SPC + 1 OE camber bolt option gets you as much camber as 2x SPC?

I honestly don't know and don't really plan on testing it since I already have the upper bolt, I'm sure others will report in down the road as more and more get modified for hard driving. I have heard of some people struggling to get more than low -2 while there are some that claim -3 or more is possible with 1x spc+1x OE.

People talk about dyno's reading differently and really it's not like alignment racks are magically perfectly accurate either, a car may read high on one and low on the other, how the car is rolled on and off the rack, and the state of repair the rack is in could all affect the reading. Along with differences from car to car. Personally I would be skeptical if they claim -2 and up isn't achievable with a pair of bolts, no matter which pair.

[TofuJoe]

Important question - stock springs or lowering springs? If your car is lowered, that adds more camber.

[Icecreamtruk]

Originally Posted by TofuJoe

Important question - stock springs or lowering springs? If your car is lowered, that adds more camber.

For clarification, only on the rear, the front does not gain camber with lowering.

[TofuJoe]

Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk

For clarification, only on the rear, the front does not gain camber with lowering.

That doesn’t sound right. I got -1.4 max in the front on stock springs with a set of camber bolts. Switched to RCE Yellows (20mm drop) and got -1.9 in the front.

[Icecreamtruk]

Originally Posted by TofuJoe

That doesn’t sound right. I got -1.4 max in the front on stock springs with a set of camber bolts. Switched to RCE Yellows (20mm drop) and got -1.9 in the front.

Mcpherson struts dont gain negative camber that way, thats basically the number 1 reason we need more camber in the front than the rear. You can google it up a bit more if you arent convinced, but because you changed several suspension components and were able to get more camber doesnt mean you can assume 1 of those changes only was responsible for the extra camber.

[n0thing]

If you look at a MacPherson strut diagram, the camber remains unchanged regardless of the spring height.

[OND]

Originally Posted by n0thing

If you look at a MacPherson strut diagram, the camber remains unchanged regardless of the spring height.

As long as lower control arm is below horizontal in steady state, that setup should give negative camber under compression. Much smaller than double wishbone setups, but still...

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by TofuJoe

That doesn’t sound right. I got -1.4 max in the front on stock springs with a set of camber bolts. Switched to RCE Yellows (20mm drop) and got -1.9 in the front.

There's potential for a little bit of camber gain on the front of this car due to lowering depending on the specifics of the suspension geometry (mostly it has to do with the arc of the lower control arm as the car is lowered) but half a degree isn't from lowering. Either the cam bolts got adjusted or you're seeing the car settle differently over time or that alignment rack just reads high.


Edit:

[Icecreamtruk]

Originally Posted by OND

As long as lower control arm is below horizontal in steady state, that setup should give negative camber under compression. Much smaller than double wishbone setups, but still...

Yeah, you could gain maybe 0.1 or 0.2 degress, but thats about it. Thats not "gaining" camber, that does nothing. For comparaison's sake, the same drop in the rear woudl get you over 1 degre of negative camber. Also, when you lower the car the control arm goes up, usually above the horizontal line.