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Old 11-10-2019, 11:59 AM   #113
Irace86.2.0
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Originally Posted by Spuds View Post
Too many statements. Let the numbering commence.

1. Batteries are currently working out for the small subset of people who buy EVs and who have already determined that EVs fit their lifestyle.

2. Of course you need at least a small onboard energy store for when you aren't on a highway. I figured that was obvious. The original point was that there are other technologies to consider than just batteries.

3a. Used batteries are not and will never be a "great commodity. ". If you need a used car do you A: buy a used car, or B: buy a random fuel tank, buy a car that never was supposed to have that fuel tank in it, and attempt to swap the fuel tank in? Is it A? I think it's A.

3b. Because everyone takes the engine out of their car to be a generator when the power goes out right?

3c. Why would a business ever want used car batteries? Weight and area are always an issue. Space costs money. Maintenance costs money. Disposal costs money. Losses to entropy cost money.
Please read below. What I was describing isn’t a theory. It is already being done. The future of used car batteries will be home and business energy storage, battery swapping (which is super easy on Teslas like minutes, not hours), and recycling of the raw materials. This will be big business. Moreover, Tesla already said that the original Tesla Roadster is built to reverse charge, say a home; it would just need the home to be able to disconnect from the grid and have an inverter from dc to ac—stuff like that.

https://www.theengineer.co.uk/charge...run-the-house/

https://medium.com/tradr/teslas-appr...n-5af99b62aa0e
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Old 11-10-2019, 12:59 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
Please read below. What I was describing isn’t a theory. It is already being done. The future of used car batteries will be home and business energy storage, battery swapping (which is super easy on Teslas like minutes, not hours), and recycling of the raw materials. This will be big business. Moreover, Tesla already said that the original Tesla Roadster is built to reverse charge, say a home; it would just need the home to be able to disconnect from the grid and have an inverter from dc to ac—stuff like that.

https://www.theengineer.co.uk/charge...run-the-house/

https://medium.com/tradr/teslas-appr...n-5af99b62aa0e
Neither article seems to say why a business would be interested in storing energy (which was my question). If you aren't in the energy storage business, why would you add that cost and risk? Keep in mind that the concept of "peak demand" goes out the window when everyone is charging their vehicles overnight, when solar and wind are at lowest production.

Tesla's batteries do not swap out in minutes, that is speculation on what they can do with some as-yet-undeveloped system. Patents and products are two very different things.

Yes, a car CAN charge a house, but where are you going to get the energy from? Your car is driven during the day and therefore relatively empty, thus requiring charging itself.

How about an update on that stadium project? Did it work. We're the results outstanding or disappointing? It's been 2 years there should have been some report on the result.


Your position is indeed based on speculation. If you have those convictions regarding batteries, might I suggest going out and making it happen? Actually prove me wrong, rather than talk about some hypothetical scenario where I could be shown to be wrong. Go start up a Powerwall competitor using used EV batteries or something to that effect. Being first in the door is sure to pay off when business gets big.
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Old 11-10-2019, 04:08 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Spuds View Post
Neither article seems to say why a business would be interested in storing energy (which was my question). If you aren't in the energy storage business, why would you add that cost and risk? Keep in mind that the concept of "peak demand" goes out the window when everyone is charging their vehicles overnight, when solar and wind are at lowest production.

Tesla's batteries do not swap out in minutes, that is speculation on what they can do with some as-yet-undeveloped system. Patents and products are two very different things.

Yes, a car CAN charge a house, but where are you going to get the energy from? Your car is driven during the day and therefore relatively empty, thus requiring charging itself.

How about an update on that stadium project? Did it work. We're the results outstanding or disappointing? It's been 2 years there should have been some report on the result.

Your position is indeed based on speculation. If you have those convictions regarding batteries, might I suggest going out and making it happen? Actually prove me wrong, rather than talk about some hypothetical scenario where I could be shown to be wrong. Go start up a Powerwall competitor using used EV batteries or something to that effect. Being first in the door is sure to pay off when business gets big.
One of the big problems with energy usage on the grid is that there are peak times of use. This is problematic in several different ways. For one thing, the basics of supply and demand mean that energy prices fluctuate throughout the day, meaning a home or business who runs the AC and TV during 5pm will pay more than someone using the same power at 3am. Another problem is that the infrastructure for generating energy needs to be able to meet the peak demand, even though peak demand is not needed all the time. This is also expensive. Finally, energy produced from green technologies like solar or wind might have energy production mismatched with peak energy use.

The solution to all this is energy storage. Store energy when it is cheapest then use it from the batteries during peak times. This can allow a homeowner or business to save money. This plus solar can allow a home or a business to be off grid completely, and finally, energy storage can mitigate the holes in energy supply from the grid when green technologies aren't able to meet the demand.

Remember too that many businesses have generators to operate as power backups like the hospital that I work at has three generators, but a battery storage system could also be used during rolling blackouts or temporary outages.

https://www.tesla.com/blog/introduci...energy-storage

Here is a video of a Tesla battery being unbolted in minutes. All of their cars have this feature.



My car is parked from 7a-730p in the hospital's parking garage every time I work, and it is parked right now in my garage since 10pm last night, so it could have been charging during none peak hours and used during peak hours. Compared to driving a car, operating the AC, TV and stove or whatever I'm using is going to barely dip into the cars battery storage.

The ideal home system is to have solar parking garages and solar homes, and at home, there is a small battery like a Tesla Powerwall, and the car can act as an additional bank if needed due to more demand or due to extended use during a power outages.

Recycled/repurposed car batteries will be ideal, and the cost will be pretty good. Here is an eBay ad with a used Tesla battery that is 85kW for $17k, and there are many more for sale. Just for reference, the Tesla Powerwall 1 and 2 are 6.4kW and 13.5kW at $3k and $6k, respectively. Someone would need 13 Powerwall 1s at $40k to equal the price of this used battery, and that would be a ridiculous amount of storage for one home for a daily use, but if someone wanted backup power or to live off grid then such a battery would be good.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/13-Tesla-Mo....c100005.m1851

Your update. It's on.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/...car-batteries/
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Old 11-10-2019, 08:22 PM   #116
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Something you don't see everyday...a custom Model 3.

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