Spec Twin?

[Cueman]

Rumours abound that the SCCA is contemplating a "Spec Twin" class for FRS and BRZ solo cars. Thoughts and ideas?

The suggestion is very intriguing to me. Now four years in, I am getting quite bored with my CS... no wait DS car, but have too much love for my car as a quiet comfortable daily driver, to seriously think about STX.

I understand the proposed idea of a Spec Twin would fall somewhere in the middle of the Street and STX classes.

I sure would be excited for something like:

1. 8J wheels
2. TRD or Eibach Pro Kit springs
3. Bilstein B8 or OTS Koni yellow
4. Optional oil cooler, brake ducts and/or braided brake lines for those of us who like lapping days
5. A durable spec front lip/splitter... because it looks more interesting, and because I just replaced a cone smashed undertray.
6. Two sway bars?
7. Real camber bolts up front? Adjustable rear LCAs?

If there was a $3000 package purchase along these lines available at Tire Rack... would that feel like a reasonable value for the added performance.

Would it suck people backwards out of STX?

Having less diversity than any solo class ever has, would the class be unattractive to those who are not already twin owners?

[14stu]

A more likely build would be:

shocks/coilovers with camber plates or reasonable camber gain
spec wheels and tires (tires because of contingency)
swaybars* possibly up to the competitors/open
headers/exhaust with spec tune (or spec tune)
allowance for oil coolers, ducts, and brakes (similar to STX for track guys)

I'm thinking that this class would be an STX clone but with spec parts and/or more uniform/economical limits. The other option is to import the Spec 86 class, similar to how the spec miata class is allowed into a specific class even though they are slightly outside the scope of the original rules.

The top guys will swap for contingency, local guys without much competition or who aren't yet fully prepped will swap, and it would be a great place for new people.

The main issue I already see is the 13-16 and 17+ divide. The new cars are already orphaned in CS, but if they are moved into spec 86, they could have an inbuilt advantage (or possible disadvantage depending on rules, but I can't really see how that'd play out).

I wouldn't be against switching from STX to spec 86 if the rules, pax index, and contingencies were appealing; however, jumping classes costs money and I've already invested a fair amount prepping for STX (the value of the modifications/parts would also take a hit with the new class, since the market for performance parts would contract while suffering a glut of similar parts for STX competitors across the country).

I'm afraid that the class will be short lived and poorly supported (it's already at least a year too late to be economical for me and a half dozen of my STX friends).

Our local STX class has grown and prospered thanks to twins, a new class could work but only at the expense of STX. They are already moving cars to the new STH. The only beneficiaries will be the DS/CS guys who can escape the 4 cylinder turbo pony cars and ND Miatas, respectively (which means a lower prep than STX, which is already very daily driver friendly, or a higher prep without going full forced induction).

[M0nk3y]

I would sit back and wait a couple weeks. Might hear more than mumbles and grumbles.

Oil Coolers/Brake Lines...etc IMO are not in the spirit of a Spec Class and only offer additional cost and a perceived value that it's needed. Same goes with the lip.

I'm not a big fan of headers and/or tune, as it adds complexity to something "Spec". IE - If the spec was going to be Sealed Konis (they would not be OTS). You could physically examine to see if the seal has been tampered with and thus easily tell if compliance has been maintained. A tune, while possible is more involved. As well, a 2013 tune vs 2015 tune are different in how the ECU adapts and accepts that tune. No tune is 100% identical on these cars, and a Spec Class would have to be such.

In addition, IF a header and tune are allowed. It becomes a slippery slope. People will start asking for an overpipe..etc etc.

As for me, I'm sticking in STX

[Shark_Bait88]

For a spec class, I think a DS/CS hybrid with a couple of allowances to make the car better suited for HPDE too would be ideal.

All DS allowances, maybe allow the TRD springs or some other spec spring kit (RCE?) for both cars, keep shock rules the same as they are for DS/CS, 8" wheels, power mods stay the same as DS/CS (essentially non-existent), and oil coolers.

An argument for more camber could easily be made too. With the options being to either allow camber plates fitted for OEM style suspension setups, or simply opening up the camber bolt options. For a spec type class, and in the interest of making this a more affordable hybrid to ideally suit those who do both solo and HPDE, I'd be more in favor of opening up the camber bolt rules. For rear camber LCAs, or maybe a specific spec class LCA, could also be an option.

The idea has a lot of potential, I think the focus just needs to be kept on making the setup one that will work well for both a competitive solo class and reliable track day participation.

[Racecomp Engineering]

People were already working on a spec class for NASA. I'm not sure how far it has progressed though.

http://spec86.com/wp/

- Andrew

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

People were already working on a spec class for NASA. I'm not sure how far it has progressed though.

http://spec86.com/wp/

- Andrew

It never took off because the cost of entry is rather high for the performance.

Spec-Vette (started this year) has a lower cost of entry for a much faster car, and Spec E46 has the same cost of entry for a much faster car.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

It never took off because the cost of entry is rather high for the performance.

Spec-Vette (started this year) has a lower cost of entry for a much faster car, and Spec E46 has the same cost of entry for a much faster car.

That's definitely true, and unfortunate. Might take a few more years for a series to take off with the 86.

- Andrew

[Cueman]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

For a spec class, I think a DS/CS hybrid with a couple of allowances to make the car better suited for HPDE too would be ideal.

All DS allowances, maybe allow the TRD springs or some other spec spring kit (RCE?) for both cars, keep shock rules the same as they are for DS/CS, 8" wheels, power mods stay the same as DS/CS (essentially non-existent), and oil coolers.

An argument for more camber could easily be made too. With the options being to either allow camber plates fitted for OEM style suspension setups, or simply opening up the camber bolt options. For a spec type class, and in the interest of making this a more affordable hybrid to ideally suit those who do both solo and HPDE, I'd be more in favor of opening up the camber bolt rules. For rear camber LCAs, or maybe a specific spec class LCA, could also be an option.

The idea has a lot of potential, I think the focus just needs to be kept on making the setup one that will work well for both a competitive solo class and reliable track day participation.

This is basically my hope, and the idea excites me.

If it comes to a slightly lighter version of STX where we have to torture ourselves everyday with tiny batteries, fixed buckets and low down ride heights, I'm not as keen.

Power is certainly the cars weakest point, but I don't think there is a great way to address it.

A few more torques for the kouki cars is arguably offset by a lower final drive while doing solo. I wouldn't strongly favour the newer cars if all else ends up equal.

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by Cueman

This is basically my hope, and the idea excites me.

If it comes to a slightly lighter version of STX where we have to torture ourselves everyday with tiny batteries, fixed buckets and low down ride heights, I'm not as keen.

Power is certainly the cars weakest point, but I don't think there is a great way to address it.

A few more torques for the kouki cars is arguably offset by a lower final drive while doing solo. I wouldn't strongly favour the newer cars if all else ends up equal.

Agreed. I think the focus should be on reliability (oil coolers), cost effectiveness (limited power mods), safety (retention of OEM safety systems, i.e. no bucket seats), and minor handling performance improvements suited to both autox and track days (spec shock/spring combo, open camber bolt rules, and 17x8" wheels).

This keeps costs relatively low, allows for safe/reliable track days, and still makes for a fun/competitive setup in both HPDE and autox that compliments the natural characteristics of the car. It solves the problems of STX being too expensive for most people to build a fully-prepped car and CS/DS being camber limited and not allowing oil coolers or wider wheels that are favored for track days.

I agree on the extra power of the kouki cars being negligible given the gearing. I'd be fine running with new 86s/BRZs, even the brake kit on the PP BRZ likely wouldn't be much of a bother to me in an autox environment.

[strat61caster]

If there's a hole in SCCA classing for 86's I don't think it's between Street and Street Touring, a mild prep for STX doesn't break the bank at <$5k for 90% of the fun. Everybody knows it doesn't take long to put together a parts list for CS/DS that sails past $3k, it's not that much more expensive to switch to 17x9's and toss some alignment parts onto the car and get what you're missing from STX. Hell I hit $3.6k just chucking RPF1's, RE71R's, Koni's, and a pair of Eibach sways into the cart on Tirerack's website, add in an alignment and install time and you're over $4k then start thinking about a revalve on those Koni's (or Bilstein) to get them dialed in just right...

vs. a set of <$2k coilovers w/ camber plates and <$2k on 17x9 wheels and tires, ~$250 RLCA's, align and go. Add power when budget frees up, ~$1k for budget header and OFT and for the price of a prepped DS/CS car you've got yourself a basic STX prep to build on as time and funds allow.

Devil's advocate,
If there's a gap in classing it's above STX as the only place to go is SM, being able to compete with off the shelf FI without having to gut your car and cut the fenders to fit ~300 width slicks would be pretty cool for this chassis. You'd be looking at a ~$9k-$12k mod budget instead of a ~$20k budget (built engine, gutted, flared, slicks, drivetrain strengthening, tow vehicle and trailer etc.)

But that's a silly hypothesis, how many boosted 86's are there really? And those interested in autox are a minority of a minority, but just a nifty idea. Could keep it street legal too by using off the shelf CARB kits/tunes/approved tuners.

My only gripe about current classing is that "Street touring" is not street legal with the emissions equipment tampering, but that seems to only concern ~10% of SCCA's membership (if that) so I doubt that'll change anytime soon.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

Agreed. I think the focus should be on reliability (oil coolers), cost effectiveness (limited power mods), safety (retention of OEM safety systems, i.e. no bucket seats), and minor handling performance improvements suited to both autox and track days (spec shock/spring combo, open camber bolt rules, and 17x8" wheels).

This keeps costs relatively low, allows for safe/reliable track days, and still makes for a fun/competitive setup in both HPDE and autox that compliments the natural characteristics of the car. It solves the problems of STX being too expensive for most people to build a fully-prepped car and CS/DS being camber limited and not allowing oil coolers or wider wheels that are favored for track days.

I agree on the extra power of the kouki cars being negligible given the gearing. I'd be fine running with new 86s/BRZs, even the brake kit on the PP BRZ likely wouldn't be much of a bother to me in an autox environment.

The two are mutually exclusive.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The two are mutually exclusive.

My dream is to prove you wrong someday on this point.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

My dream is to prove you wrong someday on this point.

I can make it not mutually exclusive, if the budget is large enough, but that defeats the purpose.

[M0nk3y]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The two are mutually exclusive.

I think Mike hit it on the head.

Oil Coolers are not needed or required for a "Spec" Class. Remember guys, SCCA is not out to satisfy HPDE requirements.

What you guys have all listed and wanted to far too close to STX ruleset. It's rule creep. You don't create a divide between STX and Spec class besides 1" of wheel width, camber plates, and some springs.

I have a bit more information than others, but I've been told a package is going to be sub $3k minus wheels/tires. You're not obligated to do full prep to run in the class.

Like I said, sit tight.