Is a BRZ what I want?

[hanabie]

@OP, you need to spend more time on the forum. Your questions have been answered.
M3 to a BRZ, I hope you know what you are doing.

[krayzie]

Answer to #2:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35279

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8374

Isn't an E92 M3 more of a muscle car? The BRZ should be closer in characteristics to an E30 (a chassis experience).

[993Fan]

If you enjoy working on cars, buy a new FRS/BRZ as a fun DD and a separate project car from simpler times like a Karmann Ghia. You should be able to do both and have lots of money left over for parts and tools on an M3 budget.

Plus you'll end up with a much more interesting car than yet another tarted up FRS/BRZ.

[D88]

You'd better be keeping your M3 as well. The FR-S/BRZ isn't really comparable.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by 1086

A lot of your questions could have been quickly answered in about 5 minutes with some google searching followed by some mouse 1 clicking. In short, the 86 platform was designed to be (arguably) the best & most friendly tuner car this side of the millennium. I think it is the perfect car for exactly what you want to do, as described in your original post. The common "complaint" by people is that it is underpowered (beat a dead horse more please) but most of the people that say that are ignorant, dumb, dumb, and stupid idiot head faces. The car was meant to be kept stocked or tuned the eff out, or somewhere in the middle, or a little less than that, or a little more. Many options, many builds - don't keep waiting!

1. Are the after market parts fairly inexpensive? Yes, since its release aftermarket parts have been decreasing in value - of course, when something is initially released prices will be at full mark-up, but over the past year cost seems to have gone down 15%-25% (depending on the item)
2. Service Tech manual available for purchase? Yes.
3. Engine fairly easy to work on? Yes, I am a noob and this car has taught me a lot.
4. Engine reliable? With a 12:1 compression ratio is anyone having problems with modifying and causing motor meltdown? As long as your AFRs are high 11's (if I have that accurate) then you should be golden.
5. Are people seeing significant improvements from turbos etc. getting the car down to 14 second quarter miles or better? Or is everyone having to do total internal motor and drivetrain improvements to handle the power? If you stick to the stock, high compression ratio, it is best to keep boost relatively low (around 9 psi) on stock internals, etc.
6. Negatives of car? The "underpowered" point I made above, but it is a stupid ass reason, in my opinion.

Lastly, I have seen/read 2013 FRS's being available for around $23,500 which is a pretty nice drop from MSRP. Even if you get a 2014 or 2013 FRS for MSRP you will be not spending around $1,000-2,000 more dollars as you would on a BRZ. Typically BRZ's are a little more pricey, depending on where you are located, 1) because of the tech options (worthless imo) and 2) fewer BRZ's produced (less supply, high demand)

This is all pretty much spot on.

To summarize. Cheap, fun, easy to work on, much larger aftermarket than most cars at the 2 year mark.

Resolving the "power issue" (which, if you just like to drive, there really isn't one). The costs are negligible. Here are examples if you stay in the Vishnu Tuning Wheelhouse

$25.5k - 170WHP/140WTQ - FR-S Base
$28.5 - 170WHP/135WTQ - BRZ Premium

$500 - 190WHP/150-1600WTQ - Tune + e85
Open Flash Tablet for Tuning + e85

$1k - 200-215WHP/170-180WTQ - Max Naturally Aspirated Power
Open Flash Tablet for Tuning + Open Flash catless header (UEL) + e85

$2.5k - 230-240WHP/205-215WTQ - Phantom Electric Supercharger
Open Flash Tablet for Tuning + Open Flash catless header (UEL) + e85

$5k - 270-280WHP/210WTQ - Vishnu OFT300 Vortech Supercharger Kit
Open Flash Tablet for Tuning + Open Flash catless header (UEL) + Gasoline

Indeed there are other powertrain upgrade options and makes, the above are just examples of how inexpensive and effective mods for this platform are. If you want something New, RWD, with good gas mileage, FUN, and you like to turn a wrench, this is the platform for you.

[Kiske]

To answer the question on the body kit/mods avaliability.

I'd say the FRS/GT86 is about 3 to 1 compared to the BRZ in aftermarket appearance parts availiability. Keeping in mind the twins share most of the body panels with the main difference being the front end. The brz and frs headlights are different. Also placement of the turn signals and day-light-running lights are different. Most seem to be made to accomodate the FRS's lights. The BRZ has a few kits availiable and most can me modified to work. The majority of the front end parts for the brz are simple lip kits.

[CoupedUpSubie]

My mind between an FR-S or BRZ was made up by sitting in each of them. The BRZ seemed slightly more refined and had a few of the creature comforts that I wanted. Heated leather/alcantara seats, auto climate control, nav. Until the twins finally came out I was going to go with a WRX, but being a slimmer guy I found the seats too wide for my liking. For me the BRZ/FR-S seats hold you in the seat very well. The BRZ was also my choice after the scion saleswoman tried pushing me into test driving a tC.

Go test drive one and any other car you have on your list. My brother who doesn't care for small cars anymore was extremely impressed with driving mine as he could actually feel the sidewall flex in my snow tires.

[Retro86]

if those are your only questions, then yes the brz is for you

[tobin]

Test drive a WRX also when you drive the BRZ. If you are concerned about the straight-line power, the WRX might be the better option. The BRZ has better handling and dynamics. Either way, Subaru engines are very reliable and fairly easy to work on.

[tripjammer]

The brz is bad ass. Sure it needs more power but you can actually drive the car to near its limits most of the time and have fun.

The new wrx is also bad ass too. We need this engine put into the brz. Hopefully Subaru will have the balls and do it for the 2015 model year.

So if you can wait another year....

I have had my brz for just over a year and it is the best car I have ever owned.

[kuhlka]

Originally Posted by Darkone

So my questions are:
1. Are the after market parts fairly inexpensive?
2. Service Tech manual available for purchase?
3. Engine fairly easy to work on?
4. Engine reliable? With a 12:1 compression ratio is anyone having problems with modifying and causing motor meltdown?
5. Are people seeing significant improvements from turbos etc. getting the car down to 14 second quarter miles or better? Or is everyone having to do total internal motor and drivetrain improvements to handle the power?
6. Negatives of car?

Aftermarket parts vary wildly in price. You CAN find dirt cheap parts, but the quality usually isn't fantastic. However, with a simple panel filter and a quality header, you can jump up about 15-20whp NA.

Manuals can be found in PDF format if you do a quick search. Tuning options are growing. Open Flash Tablet seems to be really popular and it's a fairly open and friendly tuning community. Ecutek also lets you do your own tuning now, but it's a lot more expensive and you cannot reflash your ECU back to completely stock.

Oil changes and basic maintenance is pretty easy, but if you watch savagegeese videos on YouTube getting at the various injectors is a big pain.

Reliability is debatable depending on who you ask. I suspect people weren't being safe with their fueling (no tuning after intake/exhaust upgrade) or pushing the limits of their tune and went kaboom. Same crap happens with most other vehicles if you aren't careful. Sounds like people pushing above 300whp start having stuff break (clutch slip, axles, the usual when you double the power at the wheels). With a simple forced induction upgrade you'll easily go sub 14s. Plenty of YouTube videos and threads on here about people dragging and autocrossing FI'd cars.

I've had my mirror bracket replaced, the window seal felt tore loose when I rolled down my window on a sub zero day, HPFP chirps like crazy once the car warms up, and my battery died after sitting for over a month in freezing cold. Otherwise, my car has been fantastic for 15k miles and some mild ecutek tuning. Subaru warranty support has been fine for me thus far.

Negatives?
-Get the Limited (glad I did). You'll regret not having the upgrades. The heated seats alone are worth the price in the dead of winter.

-Power is underwhelming and the torque dip is a downer. However, that can be basically eliminated with a header/filter/tune and/or forced induction. IMO, more than 250-300whp would be overkill with how light the car is unless you're a diehard drag racer and don't care much about balance for autocross.

-Stock audio is mediocre, but greatly improved with a sub/amp combo like my rockford fosgate pbr300x1 (or the pbr500x1 in my STI) and a nice sub. I've got an old 12" P2 in the STI and the R2S-1X10 in the BRZ. If you're a bass head, this is a relatively cheap and easy way to fill out the sound of the stock head unit. I'd do that first before jumping to a new head unit or speakers. It balances things out nicely, but audiophiles will probably want cross-overs and better speakers.

-Stock tires are worthless in any kind of snow. They will leave you stranded on ice. This is one situation where tow hooks would be handy to have. After getting stuck on the street I live on... I ordered a pair.

-The high pressure fuel pump makes an annoying chirping noise, but can apparently be silenced with some sleeves and other sound deadening material installed by the dealer.

-The car gets floaty above 85 on windy freeways. Tires would probably help. I'm running the stock tires until they're done before upgrading. Others have said their car feels fine. I suspect the tires are to blame. On still days I've been up to 120 and it feels okay.

-IMO the BRZ should have come stock with a much more unequal length header. The Rev Works and other UEL options 'fix' the 4-banger noise the stock exhaust makes. Stock header is about 16.666% UEL. I'm not sure how others got the fabled 23-30% UEL number. Maybe they didn't measure all the way to the collector. It's also front/back UEL, not left/right like my STI. It has a goofy layout like an EL. Makes sense that the Rev Works header + Drift-Office tune took me from low 160s to 180whp.

-Tiny trunk is tiny and the leg room for the rear passengers is non-existent. I didn't buy mine to haul friends and pack enough clothes for a month-long vacation without doing laundry. Plenty of room back there for a K-6 kid.

Aside from that, I love my car. I wish it were a 'real' STI with a factory turbo and all of the STI catalog goodies, but even the stock BRZ Limited reminds me a lot of my 05 STI's interior. It's actually a lot nicer and the seats are probably my favorite feature of the car. I've done a weekend trip from Toledo, OH to Pensacola, FL and had no pain. Best of all, it's a car you walk up to and just go, "Daaamn." It just looks like rolling art to me.

[kuhlka]

Oh, I forgot to mention the keyless on the Limited is FANTASTIC. If you've never had keyless, you can't beat the convenience of not having to pull out your keys all the time.

[SpectreRT]

Originally Posted by Darkone

Hey everyone, need your help making a decision if the BRZ is for me!

I used to own a SRT4 and I loved to work on it. I am looking for a car to work on and have fun with. I am more of a mechanic than a racer so speed is not a super concern. Graduated got a good job bought a BMW M3. Its a great car but honestly not shade tree mechanic friendly. There is no service/tech manual available..so your on your own with no torque specs, assembly, etc. The problem is further complicated in that the engine itself is a 20k engine, German technology, and high tech. Honestly working on a 20k engine is not fun and not worth the risk! On top of that the after market and parts in general are crazy expensive. It also has bearing failure and it is starting to come up more and more with owners. Also, honestly..everyone on those forums are generally rich jerks....

So, I start looking around for a car that was inexpensive, had lots of room for improvement and would be fun to work on. Most of all looked great...BRZ?

So my questions are:
1. Are the after market parts fairly inexpensive?
2. Service Tech manual available for purchase?
3. Engine fairly easy to work on?
4. Engine reliable? With a 12:1 compression ratio is anyone having problems with modifying and causing motor meltdown?
5. Are people seeing significant improvements from turbos etc. getting the car down to 14 second quarter miles or better? Or is everyone having to do total internal motor and drivetrain improvements to handle the power?
6. Negatives of car?

Please comment on the 6 questions above ...and if you think based on what I mentioned this car is what I am looking for.

I actually went from a heavily modified SRT-4 to the BRZ. I couldnt be happier.

1) Tons of aftermarket for this car. Prices range depending on quality and new/used.
2) Think the service manuals are available for download free on some forums...
3) Pretty easy, with the exception of a few things. (Example: gotta lift/drop the motor for spark plug changes. Unless someone has found a workaround).
4) I've had no issues aside from high pressure fuel pump. Some heavy track users report some direct injector seal failure. Not sure its a wide spread thing really.
5) This isnt really a drag car. That said a friend of mine has a ~295 whp turbo and another has a ~350 whp supercharged.
6) My personal negatives: Some interior panels are super cheap. Head unit (stereo) kinda sucks, clutch is strange at first, windows can freeze shut in the winter, paint durability is laughable, no OEM arm rest.

Thats about it. I'd trade my SRT again for a BRZ/FRS in a heartbeat. Sure I miss the power/torque - but I live in the city where I never got to use it anyway. Hope this helps.

[kuhlka]

Originally Posted by SpectreRT

6) My personal negatives: Some interior panels are super cheap. Head unit (stereo) kinda sucks, clutch is strange at first, windows can freeze shut in the winter, paint durability is laughable, no OEM arm rest.

I forgot about the cup holders and paint. Seems like the paint/clear is super thin along with the sheet metal. I think to save weight they went lame-o on the body. I got a ding in the hood in the first few months and chips in the bumper happen way too frequently.

Also, no change pocket or other amenities aside from the 16oz bottle pockets in the doors.