2017 BRZ Vs. 2005 Boxter S Vs. 2016 WRX Vs……

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

It's not far off the Porsche in that category, but where it's even better than the Porsche is the lack of haters. That's one aspect I do not miss about the Porsche. So many haters out there that do and say things you'd rather not deal with just because you're rolling in a Porsche. No such thing in the BRZ. So far, only positive attention.

I can't tell you how many times I'd park my P cars at the far end of a parking lot with plenty of open spots and some yayhoo would come and park right next to me to where I couldn't open my door. I think it's just a jealousy thing. A few of those incidents resulted in an action by me that I'm sure made them think twice before doing it again to someone else.

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

Here is your almost unicorn car. Only thing is it has a turbo 4 but sounds better than the 718 in videos. If it follows the trend of the 718 or EcoBoost Mustangs, torque would come sooner than an NA 6 alternative.

Oh I love that car already. It's on my short list of potential cars for the future. I have my digs on it: hate Forced induction, not a 6 cylinder, no manual option and dual clutch isn't great, no rear seats, unproven reliability record, pricey.. oh cr*p I'm being too harsh on it aren't I!

Well I love this car and hope it gets better and better. Would still choose the BRZ over it if I were shopping today.

I'd choose an NA 6 over a forced induction engine any day of the week. Really not a fan of turbo lag at all. As a matter of fact, I really just can't stand it. It use to be that FI was phased out of the enthusiast car world because of the nonlinear throttle response, now it got introduced back in for fuel economy reasons and it feels like everyone is looking the other way when it comes to this issue.

It's all because of this power war that such an issue is ignored.

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by TommyW

I can't tell you how many times I'd park my P cars at the far end of a parking lot with plenty of open spots and some yayhoo would come and park right next to me to where I couldn't open my door. I think it's just a jealousy thing. A few of those incidents resulted in an action by me that I'm sure made them think twice before doing it again to someone else.

Consider yourself lucky if that's what you've experienced..

Myself, I've had someone swerve on me from the utmost right lane when I was driving on the utmost left lane just to scare me and then swerve back and take the exit. If it didn't happen to me personally I would've not believed that people would do such a thing on public roads. If I reacted badly, he could've killed me with such a maneuver.

Really owning a Porsche ( or worst Ferrari or Lamborghini) wakes you up to an ugly side of society you're not even aware existed. I do not miss those days at all.

There were positive incidents though to be fare

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

There were positive incidents though to be fare

Being single and driving a black 911 didn't exactly suck......

[ermax]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

@ermax Any other changes in your car? Tune , exhaust?

Gutted cats and Wayne’s stage 2 rom. No other rom changes other than the transient retard table from the 2017 rom. But that has no impact on perf. Did a data log from 0-60 it looks like about 5.5secs. Not completely scientific though. I had a bad launch on that run too. Need to get it to a drag strip sometime.

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

Oh I love that car already. It's on my short list of potential cars for the future. I have my digs on it: hate Forced induction, not a 6 cylinder, no manual option and dual clutch isn't great, no rear seats, unproven reliability record, pricey.. oh cr*p I'm being too harsh on it aren't I!

Well I love this car and hope it gets better and better. Would still choose the BRZ over it if I were shopping today.

I'd choose an NA 6 over a forced induction engine any day of the week. Really not a fan of turbo lag at all. As a matter of fact, I really just can't stand it. It use to be that FI was phased out of the enthusiast car world because of the nonlinear throttle response, now it got introduced back in for fuel economy reasons and it feels like everyone is looking the other way when it comes to this issue.

It's all because of this power war that such an issue is ignored.

I've got the same reservations, better to wait out its growing pains and [hopefully] a manual version. I'm just excited about the idea of it.

I was a die-hard NA 6 fan til I drove a 981 and 981S flat-6 and recently bought a V6 Mustang. Takes some time to build up power/torque which is more pronounced to me after being spoiled by my TVS supercharged BRZ. Lag seems to be negligible in their turbo counterparts, though. Credible Youtube reviews say power comes sooner with these modern turbos (maybe some dead pedal at initial throttle but I get that in my supercharged BRZ). I believe they are twin scroll and/or activate sequentially (turbo size adapts to RPM by dynamic vanes). I don't mind the hp/mpg wars direction simply because it's objectively better engineering. Only thing I dislike about them is the sound. But the A110 sounds better than both those cars (in videos), probably one of the best sounding turbo 4s.

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

I've got the same reservations, better to wait out its growing pains and [hopefully] a manual version. I'm just excited about the idea of it.

I was a die-hard NA 6 fan til I drove a 981 and 981S flat-6 and recently bought a V6 Mustang. Takes some time to build up power/torque which is more pronounced to me after being spoiled by my TVS supercharged BRZ. Lag seems to be negligible in their turbo counterparts, though. Credible Youtube reviews say power comes sooner with these modern turbos (maybe some dead pedal at initial throttle but I get that in my supercharged BRZ). I believe they are twin scroll and/or activate sequentially (turbo size adapts to RPM by dynamic vanes). I don't mind the hp/mpg wars direction simply because it's objectively better engineering. Only thing I dislike about them is the sound. But the A110 sounds better than both those cars (in videos), probably one of the best sounding turbo 4s.

There is talk about Volvo building a technology that would eliminate turbo lag.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr5mksh68A4"]eliminate forced induction lag[/ame]

But until then, you just can't have a linear throttle response from FI. In my car, I want pinpoint precision in everything, as if the car was my exoskeleton.

And come on, be honest, would you choose a Mustang GT350/Lamborghini Huracan? or a Porsche 911 Turbo? based on engine alone?

I'm honestly willing to sacrifice that midrange punch of FI for an engine that oozes more character and sound. Speed is basically doing the same thing just faster, so the BRZ is good cause it lets you savor the moment more :P

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

I've got the same reservations, better to wait out its growing pains and [hopefully] a manual version. I'm just excited about the idea of it.

I was a die-hard NA 6 fan til I drove a 981 and 981S flat-6 and recently bought a V6 Mustang. Takes some time to build up power/torque which is more pronounced to me after being spoiled by my TVS supercharged BRZ. Lag seems to be negligible in their turbo counterparts, though. Credible Youtube reviews say power comes sooner with these modern turbos (maybe some dead pedal at initial throttle but I get that in my supercharged BRZ). I believe they are twin scroll and/or activate sequentially (turbo size adapts to RPM by dynamic vanes). I don't mind the hp/mpg wars direction simply because it's objectively better engineering. Only thing I dislike about them is the sound. But the A110 sounds better than both those cars (in videos), probably one of the best sounding turbo 4s.

By the way I had a look at your supercharger kit.. really nice stuff..

[dowroa]

@rennlistuser3, I went back through your history on this research, as it seems similar to mine for this car (to a point). I am coming from owning STIs, Corvettes and trucks with a grassroots motorsports background... so a little different.

I just had a few questions, if you don't mind.

What made you finally go from choosing a bare bones used BRZ to a 17 PP? I am doing this, for very different reasons (autoX SSC class vs. what my brain likes in the 17+ PP).

Did you wind up getting a new or used PP BRZ? There are quite a few PP BRZs around ~23K USD @4k miles in the US, which is a nice amount of savings. Any reason for your decision?

Did you get all you needed answered about the brakes? I didn't answer your old thread as I thought your question was answered well by others. I attempted to find the Brembo size rotors online from local parts store, and all of them listed "Except for Brembo". I am sure they are out there. I have just yet to find the correct part number so I could pick up the cheap-o rotors for track days. I think I found a link below, but I would still have to verify the information before I call it accurate, and I would personally want to get non-OEM local rotors for the track (keeping pad transfer on and very metallic/high wear pads + cracking off OEM DDs).

While you stated you don't participate in motorsports, are you planning on putting some real rubber on the wheels this spring? I think with the 7.5" wheel and some good 225/235s, you will get to see more of what the car is really capable. I am not sure a RE71R is right for you, but seeing any Summer Compound on there with the OEM PP struts would be interesting to hear. These cars are camber limited (MacPherson front design w/negative camber dynamic loss).

Are there any other questions you had about the car post-purchase? I owe you information about the brake rotors. Also, I noted you brought up the TRD exhaust a lot. Just note for the 2017+, the rear muffler flange has changed. Therefore, you will need to purchase a 2017+ specific "back box" (just the muffler) or get a system that goes all the way back to the resonator (the next break in the exhaust). From there forward, it is still the same.

Thank you for your time, and I hope you continue to enjoy your car!

Links:
* https://parts.subaru.com/a/Subaru_20...10-262-03.html

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by dowroa

@rennlistuser3, I went back through your history on this research, as it seems similar to mine for this car (to a point). I am coming from owning STIs, Corvettes and trucks with a grassroots motorsports background... so a little different.

I just had a few questions, if you don't mind.

What made you finally go from choosing a bare bones used BRZ to a 17 PP? I am doing this, for very different reasons (autoX SSC class vs. what my brain likes in the 17+ PP).

Did you wind up getting a new or used PP BRZ? There are quite a few PP BRZs around ~23K USD @4k miles in the US, which is a nice amount of savings. Any reason for your decision?

Did you get all you needed answered about the brakes? I didn't answer your old thread as I thought your question was answered well by others. I attempted to find the Brembo size rotors online from local parts store, and all of them listed "Except for Brembo". I am sure they are out there. I have just yet to find the correct part number so I could pick up the cheap-o rotors for track days. I think I found a link below, but I would still have to verify the information before I call it accurate, and I would personally want to get non-OEM local rotors for the track (keeping pad transfer on and very metallic/high wear pads + cracking off OEM DDs).

While you stated you don't participate in motorsports, are you planning on putting some real rubber on the wheels this spring? I think with the 7.5" wheel and some good 225/235s, you will get to see more of what the car is really capable. I am not sure a RE71R is right for you, but seeing any Summer Compound on there with the OEM PP struts would be interesting to hear. These cars are camber limited (MacPherson front design w/negative camber dynamic loss).

Are there any other questions you had about the car post-purchase? I owe you information about the brake rotors. Also, I noted you brought up the TRD exhaust a lot. Just note for the 2017+, the rear muffler flange has changed. Therefore, you will need to purchase a 2017+ specific "back box" (just the muffler) or get a system that goes all the way back to the resonator (the next break in the exhaust). From there forward, it is still the same.

Thank you for your time, and I hope you continue to enjoy your car!

Links:
* https://parts.subaru.com/a/Subaru_20...10-262-03.html

Oh big thanks! gosh that's a whole lot of help just in one post!

I'll answer most of it here and come back later for maybe more. But to comment on some of the things:

I decided to get the 2017 because: 1 like the shorter gear ratios a whole whole lot more and that was super important for me, I liked the LED lighting front and back, I did not want to buy used because I decided if I bought this car I will very likely keep it for a very long time (expecting 10 years because it's highly unlikely it will be updated significantly, it's a back to basics car in an industry that's in a power war with dual clutches and big turbos and heavy cars) and I am fully aware that these cars tend to be very badly abused by their owners (this is my personal opinion). You don't know if the previous owner tuned the engine to 700 HP and cut all sorts of things at the engine bay and wore out the parts of the car, and then returned everything to stock and sold it off to the next owner's headache. And I don't like headaches. So all these factors, I decided I'll buy new and take very good care of it and enjoy a sports car for a long time to come.

Honestly right now the car is growing on me more by the day. These days all I can think of is when will I next have an excuse to go drive my BRZ. That car is just a downright riot. It's a traveling circus parked in your drive way. I don't think I can ever call a FWD or AWD fun ever again after this car. It brings out the 12 year old in you. And not a good 12 year old, a trouble child delinquent 12 year old. Honestly the only thing this car is missing is the proper engine sound. Else I always imagine it to be my modern Lancia Startus but with an ugly engine sound.


Which brings me to the TRD, thanks a whole lot for telling me that! Honestly right now too busy with career but when summer comes, first thing I'll be doing is fixing the sound of my BRZ. So you likely saved me some trouble. I will be opening a thread around that time to get feedback from everyone on what to do to my car to get it to sound better for me.

As for tires, I am actually very satisfied wit the OEM tires. I know, I know, everyone hates them. I love them. They make the car feel very nimble and light and agile and eager to turn. The low grip gives it an edginess and playfulness that I like. Even top motoring journals like AUTOCAR.CO.UK love these tires. I don't think I'll be changing them. I am running on winters right now though, and I hate them cause they make the car feel heavy and a clumsy. It's a blast to slide all over the place and torture those winter tires I hate so much. best of all no one can blame you for how you're driving in snow. I mean everyone else is sliding around too. You're just doing it in RWD and having fun while everyone thinks you're struggling with your car and petty you. Little do they know...


For the Brembos, I just never had Brembo brakes and decided to test out what ownership is like. I am big on experiencing things in life so I said to heck with it and got them. I'm happy I did now cause the stopping power is certainly there. I'm sure I'll put them to good use..

For racing the car, when the weather gets warmer here and I touch base with local FT86 people, I might try out autocross and see how much I like it. So it's not entirely out of my plans. Just not too sure about it.

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

As for tires, I am actually very satisfied wit the OEM tires. I know, I know, everyone hates them. I love them. They make the car feel very nimble and light and agile and eager to turn. .

If people would leave the OEM tires on they would learn to be better drivers, especially on a track. You get used to big slip angles with a safer, lower limit then once you put stickier tires on, you're automatically more comfortable with the smaller slip angles at a higher speed

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by TommyW

If people would leave the OEM tires on they would learn to be better drivers, especially on a track. You get used to big slip angles with a safer, lower limit then once you put stickier tires on, you're automatically more comfortable with the smaller slip angles at a higher speed

And on public roads such lower grip lowers the speeds you're doing when you're reaching the same limits and maneuvers.

Again, top journals like Autocar and EVO always comment on this fact and praise the manufacturers decision to go against the trend and do it that way. Autocar magazine goes as far as giving this car a 5 star rating which is a super rare rating. This magazine is the oldest car magazine and in my opinion one of the best if not the best. They know their stuff.

Come US side, and a Mustang eco-boost is a better sports car because it has more torque.. blah

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/subaru/brz

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by TommyW

I can't tell you how many times I'd park my P cars at the far end of a parking lot with plenty of open spots and some yayhoo would come and park right next to me to where I couldn't open my door. I think it's just a jealousy thing. A few of those incidents resulted in an action by me that I'm sure made them think twice before doing it again to someone else.

Textbook douche owner move.

[nikitopo]

Nice comparison video:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI-WkHBUFN4"]Alfa Romeo 4C vs Porsche Cayman vs Toyota GT86 / Scion FT86 - sportscar shootout - YouTube[/ame]




About the OEM tires, I have Advan's AD08R (205/55 R16). I swapped them back to OEM a month ago (same size) and out of curiosity I did a slalom test. There was a lot of delay and the feedback was rubbish. In my opinion they are good just for someone who learns to drive and wants a lower speed threshold for safety.