Cops doing a text-book arrest

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I'm a big proponent of filming public officers fulfilling their duty to me as a citizen.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/22/us...eras.html?_r=0

What duty to you as a citizen?

Police have NO duty to protect unless you have a special relationship with them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_...ct_of_Columbia

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by whaap

Too bad there isn't a law against being stupid. Then they could have locked up the guy with the camera.

It took me awhile to process my feelings on your post, I think that they guy doing the filming was misguided.

I think that we should absolutely question the men and women policing our neighborhoods and our communities, we should absolutely whip out cameras and document perceived injustices so that evidence can be used to help shed light on the truth.

To most of the posters here it seems obvious that the girl was violently resisting arrest prompting the use of (what many here agree is) necessary and reasonable force, to the man filming however all he saw was a police officer subduing a young female (nevermind she was putting up an impressive fight, not sure I could mount the same level of resistance). So really the only thing the guy wants to know (and I must agree with him here) is why is she being arrested? Why did she need to be subdued in the first place? Was she selling drugs? Shoplifting? Taking a nap on a bus stop bench? Littering? It should be a simple answer but objectively it would be a nightmare for the officer to disclose his suspicions and accusations to the general public, she could be exonerated and the charges dropped, but the record of the officers accusations would remain public forever whereas usually they would disappear or be stricken from court records.

Of course the paranoid among us will cry that the officer did not disclose the reason for arrest because he didn't have one, he's a thug and he'll make it up on the drive to the police station. If that was the case I don't think he would have stuck around explaining why he can't explain the details of what has occurred. I also have a hunch there is more to this video, it was cut short because what remains is an officer calmly explaining how to send the video to the police department so it can be submitted as evidence and possibly handing out a case file number of some sort or contact information.

I feel like I see both sides, I sympathize with the camera operator, we live in a country where police are carrying military grade weapons and are trained to counter violent threats without stepping back and wondering if there is a simpler solution to the matter. I guess I'm saying that it would horrify me to lock up the guy with the camera, despite his lack of intelligence or objective reasoning.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

What duty to you as a citizen?

Police have NO duty to protect unless you have a special relationship with them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_...ct_of_Columbia

"Law enforcement broadly refers to any system by which some members of society act in an organized manner to enforce the law by discovering, deterring, rehabilitating or punishing persons who violate the rules and norms governing that society."

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement"]Law enforcement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]


You are right, I misspoke. I should have said "member of society" instead of citizen, I did not mean to imply special/individual treatment. Officers are there to enforce laws which benefit society, as a member of society I want to know that they are upholding their duty to society in a just and dignified manner.

Edit: Apologies for the triple posting, this stirs some stuff up in me.

Edit 2: Upon reading the details of the case that is a tragic and gut wrenching thing to happen and a certain failure of the law enforcement that was requested, but logically the police department cannot be held responsible for every failing and close call and "what if" scenario. I have a feeling there are some details missing from wikipedia, possibly a socio-economic bias, the area is gentrified now but 38 years ago I have a hunch that LE didn't put much effort into the area seeing it as a waste and a risk.

[OrangeJuleas]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

What duty to you as a citizen?

Police have NO duty to protect unless you have a special relationship with them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_...ct_of_Columbia

Informative (and cynical) as usual, Orbital.

Seroiusly though, the police are not there to determine what's fair. They are there to arrest you and let the court system sort it out later. If someone dies, well, that's just life, unfortunately.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by OrangeJuleas

Informative (and cynical) as usual, Orbital.

Seroiusly though, the police are not there to determine what's fair. They are there to arrest you and let the court system sort it out later. If someone dies, well, that's just life, unfortunately.

It's my modus operandi, what can I say?

No, but there's a whole lot of police state going on in this country...they've essentially become paramilitary forces with little to no respect for the Constitution.

[White64Goat]

All the cops had to do was tell the person filming this was that they DID NOT have the police departments permission to film this and if it appears on websites they'll be arrested. Although it's in a public place, you can still get in trouble for filming it and then showing it without the person(s) in the videos permission.

Why was she being arrested? Unless the guy filming it has ALL the video, not just the cops arresting her, it's none of his business. If she sold 10 lbs. of crack to an undercover cop before he started to film this and he just caught the arrest because of the commotion, he has no right to know why she is being arrested. Zero, none. And he sounds more Russian than Canadian and it looks like he might have flipped off the female cop when he was peeking out the door after she told him to get back.

Love when she was about to get stuffed in the car and says she hopes everyone sees this. We did, and you really humiliated yourself.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by White64Goat

All the cops had to do was tell the person filming this was that they DID NOT have the police departments permission to film this and if it appears on websites they'll be arrested. Although it's in a public place, you can still get in trouble for filming it and then showing it without the person(s) in the videos permission.

Depends on the state.

https://www.aclu.org/free-speech/kno...-photographers

Even the states with laws "protecting" police officers from being filmed have had those laws overturned in court:

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...olice-officers

The video in the OP takes place in Canada, I found a couple posts on the subject.

http://blog.privacylawyer.ca/2012/08....html?spref=fb

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/...e-proceedings/

[whaap]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

It took me awhile to process my feelings on your post, I think that they guy doing the filming was misguided.

I think that we should absolutely question the men and women policing our neighborhoods and our communities, we should absolutely whip out cameras and document perceived injustices so that evidence can be used to help shed light on the truth.

To most of the posters here it seems obvious that the girl was violently resisting arrest prompting the use of (what many here agree is) necessary and reasonable force, to the man filming however all he saw was a police officer subduing a young female (nevermind she was putting up an impressive fight, not sure I could mount the same level of resistance). So really the only thing the guy wants to know (and I must agree with him here) is why is she being arrested? Why did she need to be subdued in the first place? Was she selling drugs? Shoplifting? Taking a nap on a bus stop bench? Littering? It should be a simple answer but objectively it would be a nightmare for the officer to disclose his suspicions and accusations to the general public, she could be exonerated and the charges dropped, but the record of the officers accusations would remain public forever whereas usually they would disappear or be stricken from court records.

Of course the paranoid among us will cry that the officer did not disclose the reason for arrest because he didn't have one, he's a thug and he'll make it up on the drive to the police station. If that was the case I don't think he would have stuck around explaining why he can't explain the details of what has occurred. I also have a hunch there is more to this video, it was cut short because what remains is an officer calmly explaining how to send the video to the police department so it can be submitted as evidence and possibly handing out a case file number of some sort or contact information.

I feel like I see both sides, I sympathize with the camera operator, we live in a country where police are carrying military grade weapons and are trained to counter violent threats without stepping back and wondering if there is a simpler solution to the matter. I guess I'm saying that it would horrify me to lock up the guy with the camera, despite his lack of intelligence or objective reasoning.

It's o.k. that we might disagree. As far as I personally am concerned I have no objection to him filming the event. Why the police were making an arrest is none of his business. All he was accomplishing was an attempt to antagonize people already doing a difficult task.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by whaap

It's o.k. that we might disagree. As far as I personally am concerned I have no objection to him filming the event. Why the police were making an arrest is none of his business. All he was accomplishing was an attempt to antagonize people already doing a difficult task.

Completely agree with this, like I said, this stirs up some complex feelings in me. Just gotta let it out sometimes.

[White64Goat]

Taping it is one thing, showing it is another.......and they really didn't address that as I could see.

[RFB]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I went to UC Davis during this:



I do not have a high opinion of current law enforcement in our country.

I think that officer did the best he could in that situation, my only question is what prompted him to feel the need to subdue her which will come out in the due process of the law.

As for the filming, the guy operating the camera in the instance being discussed is a tool looking for a fight.

I'm a big proponent of filming public officers fulfilling their duty to me as a citizen.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/22/us...eras.html?_r=0

I agree !!

Police administrations sell in dash and on officer cameras as tools to protect officers from unjustified improper policing complaints -

HOWEVER - the puny brain police administrator politicians (above the rank of S/Sgt) use them for petty discipline charges against those that are not "on the bus" (their minions who support them for further mutual masturbation promotions and eliminate the competition who won't suk their d!ks). Many North American Police associations (unions) have twigged and fight this move.

If it wasn't for the idiot admin assoles it would work to keep cops honest.

As far as Law enforcement quality in the U.S. - low wages keep the intelligent from the profession.

In Canada university degrees were pretty much standard to aquire a job (as well as being a one legged aboriginal negro lesbian (You call it affirmative action in AmeriKa).

That backfired because the candidates were quite capable of communicating at the level of professor, lawyer, judge - but not of dog shit on the streets. They failed big time because theorital thinking couldn't reason out dog shit, so now the preferred candidates are older men with professional and life experience.

The U.S. still prefers military men - Unfortunately due to no federal hiring guidelines every local jurisdiction sets local hiring standards (based on the local no mind get it cheaper get re-elected politicians) and subsequent low (cheaper) training standards. More and more money is now spent on how to use force! (post terrorism justification, patriot act etc.).

Yes - I don't have a high opinion of current law enforcement officers.

If you doubt me and others - look at the Swiss, German, Israeli etc. etc law enforcement officers, administration, structure, effectiveness etc.etc.

Law enforcement is a NOBLE profession and I admire all the idiots who aspire to it - they are young inexperienced idiots - rookies with a Wyatt Earp complex quickly disillusioned whe they find out whats really going on . STICK IT OUT - DEFEAT THE POLITICIONS - STAY A PATROLEMAN FOR LIFE - BE AN HONOURABLE COP !

Occasionally someone rises to the top with HONOUR.



CERBERUS - Keeps those in HELL who belong there.

BUT MORE IMPORTANT - keeps those who don't belong OUT !

Kudos to those few heros.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by RFB

In Canada university degrees were pretty much standard to aquire a job (as well as being a one legged aboriginal negro lesbian (You call it affirmative action in AmeriKa).

Degrees are required for law enforcement in America as well in many areas, one of my classmates is now working in Stockton. I'm kind of afraid though, don't really like him :/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enf...qualifications

[RFB]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Degrees are required for law enforcement in America as well in many areas, one of my classmates is now working in Stockton. I'm kind of afraid though, don't really like him :/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enf...qualifications

Yes college degrees (if necessary) - which means some jurisdictions can require post secondary qualifications. But it is not necessary to get a job.

It is the same here, but hiring is based on a qualifications point system, with a very large number of points assigned to a degree and it is difficult to accumulate enough points otherwise (unless the applicant is a one legged negro lesbian).

Nepotism and sudden urgent manpower needs allow recruiting officers to unfairly manipulate the points system for the needs of their politician administrators (above the rank of S/Sgt. cops become politicians).

One major municipal force with a serious morale problem that exploded at the same time as a mass retirement surge, hired everybody and anybody that was politically correct to fill the gaps. A couple of years later they were shocked to learn that they had the highest numbers of officers with criminal records in the country !

In Canada there is a differentation between college and university. College degree is below university degree. We have both but university is our equivalent of your Yale or Harvard schools.

College tends to be for practical trades and university for more theoretical pursuits, and to become doctors, scientists etc.

Cops with that kind of theoretical training soon discover theories aren't practical enough to be able to communicate with dog shit on the streets.

Many of the better police forces that have experienced this now assign more points to older candidates with professional life experience rather than rookies freshly brainwashed by their professors with socialist theories of how life should be, not how it is.

Common sense is the most uncommon attribute but the most necessary for a cop.




CERBERUS

[Liltuffgirl]

Originally Posted by RFB

When arresting an estrogen life form with a police estrogen life form at the scene USE the female to make the arrest ( public relations police college course 101 ).

The male copper wouldnt have been winded if he stopped talking and ignored the clueless moron with the cel cam.

The female copper did what they usually do - stand around and let the men do the physical work.

Knowing the Hamilton boys and the blue collar miscreants they deal with - that cop was surprisingly very P.R. minded. No doubt he is being criticized by his peers and praised by his supervisors ( the politicians above S/Sgt. level ).

:evil glare:
I have no issues getting physical (giggity) but if there is a "pig pile" I'll be the smart one and wait for them to get off the suspect and I'll put them in the car while they compair who was more bad ass.

Although last time I was quick to go hands on me and one other guy ended up covered in blood our thanksgiving sucked lol guessing it did too for that guy too since he then needed stitches and never got numbed lol


I hate everyone who tries to "punk cops". And I get even more aggravated when the cop doesn't just say YES YOU ARE BEING DETAINED for suspicion of DUI. My god what is so hard about that? I'm not perfect but a camera doesn't make me afraid to do my job either.