Winter Tire Review Thread (Please contribute)

[churchx]

Chains are for very slow crawling for short distances, not for actual daily driving. And most probably for road/snow situation where they might be handy you won't be able to drive through due low car ground clearance anyway, with car's bulldozer shaped bumper gathering wall of snow in front and then stopping . (experienced this after one VERY snowy night, having to get through 20cm snow layer).
Differences between different season tires are mainly two - better fit for mud/snow/ice thread pattern & softer rubber compound (leaving out for simplicity sake studded winter tires).
As to which perform best depending on weather .. i've often heard +5C being point below which summer tires starting to work badly due rubber compound hardening too much/not enough getting heat into them when driving, to stick better to road (tarmac/snow/ice). Winter tires do much better due different rubber, that on contrary softens up too much in very warm tires, adding much more to sidewall flex/rubbery driving feel & with increased tire wear, if one decides to drive all year round with winter tires. Another drawback is due specialised thread pattern (many big & deep "offroadish" grooves to dig better in snow/ice, and many small extra mini grooves to grip better to ice) they are on average much noisier then summer tires and have bigger rolling resistance (worse fuel economy) and a bit less grip in hot weather due getting too soft rubber.
All seasons are somewhere in-between. Thread pattern closer to winter tire's, rubber compound medium-soft. So they should do better then summer and winter tires on mild winter areas of +10 to -5 areas with frequently and timely cleaned from snow/ice roads, bet loosing to more specialised summer & winter tires above & below. Not dangerously though, their drawbacks at temp extremes don't get as bad season antagonists if used in wrong seasons, then don't wear that bad as winters in summer, and they grip more reasonably in winter then dangerous summer tires in winter. Some also choose all seasons to drive all year round for supposedly some money saving, but imho that's wrong thinking. Yes, having two tire sets makes higher initial spending, but if you use two tire sets in right seasons, you get double mileage from them, so what's a difference if you need to buy two sets of all-season tires in same time frame to get same summed mileage? +Tires in winter should have longer thread depth to less snow-plane (~ analogue to aquaplaning) and those all seasons at end of life might be subpar choice in winter, even if thread depth is enough for summer use.

Hmm .. if your winter average temps are mostly 10C all winter, with going below freezing only for day or two .. i'd probably would drive only summer tires all year round (at most bringing around "snow socks" (google about those, interesting product. Not much drawbacks throwing such in glovebox for emergency case).

If winter average temps are +5C to -5C i'd probably would use summer tires in summer and all-season tires in winter.

If average winter temps are -10C, from +5 to -30 with snow/ice not being rare guest on most of roads you drive daily, i'd say winter tires are must have. If legal, then also studded (there are states/countries with studded being not allowed due damaging tarmac). And remember, that winter is NOT the season to show off stupidly wide tires. Best bet would be to use even narrower tires (eg. 205/50 on our stock R17 wheels of stock 215/45 tire size, or 205/55-195/60 if on R16) for more mass per area patch to better push through snow flush to grippier surface, not planing/sliding over. It's safer to play if bling bug bites you with weird tire sizing in summer, when grip is plentiful, but in winter with scarce grip i'd use most advised ways to increase that little grip to begin with, especially for emergency cases caused by weather, my own mistakes or mistakes of other drivers.

Your particular case that seemed to me closer to second case .. i'd probably would get summers + all-seasons (+maybe those snow socks). Or if you go skiing to mountains frequent and long enough (week or two each year), then winters.

[why?]

Originally Posted by churchx

But he also wrote that snow is rarely seen. So more of a time of rubbery feeling in relatively warm weather, and just day or two per year where they would work their best. So i wouldn't call it zero reason. Everybody lives/drives in places with different weathers. So "best" tire choice is different to everybody. I am among those with normal winters, but i wouldn't suggest winter tires for someone living in tropics .

Not about snow, about cold. And they are not rubbery if you just inflate them right. I'm on General Altimax Artic's in North Carolina. They are awesome in snow and cold, but just as good as all seasons when it is not as cold. I have mine inflated at the top of their cold inflation range and there is absolutely no rubbery feeling whatsoever. They are just excellent tires.

[geezerbrzeezer]

Originally Posted by SirEspo

Not true. I cheaped out since I figured I'd only be using these for the next couple months, but the 205/50/17 Hankook Winter IPike RS (W419 variety) are complete garbage in anything BUT snow. They provide decent grip and I can break them away if I really want to, but in dry and wet conditions, if I don't have traction completely off, they spin and the car cuts throttle at less than 50%. They get loud above 45F too and the tread squirm is noticeable. Would not recommend.

Didn't want to double post, but I wanted to give a review since everyone else has bought Blizzaks or Nokians it seems. You gave me an excuse to do so

Good info. (I did say 'most winter tires' though).

If I had to do it all over again though, despite my positive rating of the Blizzaks, I'd try the Nokians or another brand with a better wet/dry vs snow performance rating given that roads get salted, brined and cleared so quickly nowadays.

[Si_Chris]

I have the General Altimax Arctic in the OEM 215/45R17 tire size with the OEM wheels for my winter set up.

This winter season is my first "real" winter driving my BRZ, and a RWD platform as well so I was a bit nervous. However, after driving around in a snow storm for an hour or two a couple weeks ago, I can say this car has no major issues with proper winter tires.

My only gripe was starting from a dead stop. First gear is a bit tricky but second gear is much better suited (I am not using any weight in the trunk). However, once you get going, the car drives pretty well in terms of maneuverability, acceleration, and braking.

I played around with the traction control modes between: full on, VSC Sport, and full off. Full on was the most difficult to drive the car in. The nannies kept kicking in too much hindering acceleration when I needed it. For full off, there was too much wheel spin, and there were instances in where I was fishtailing constantly, and almost spinning out. Throttle control is key with traction control fully off, and since that it was my first time driving in deep snow, I did not want to crash so I did not keep traction control fully off for long periods of time, except for hooning around in an empty parking lot.

Overall, I found that VSC Sport was the best driving mode for me. It allowed some wheel spin, but not too much. It was the right balance for me.

Here are some pics when I was having some fun in an empty parking lot with traction control fully off. I had no issues moving around in several inches of snow.

[Ry.ruzn]

Winter wheel setup

TRMS C4 17x8+45
Blizzaks 225/45/17







If you are struggling with driving in the snow. Do yourself a favor and get a set of Blizzaks. Word of advise, a taller sidewall + smaller wheel width will keep the car happy.

Blizzaks perform well in dry and wet conditions but don't compare them to the confidence you have in summers.

[Cheve]

Wow, thanks a lot @churchx! I also asked in the local subforum and given how bad the weather is going to be, I'm renting a cheap AWD Jeep. But I'll keep this info in mind for next winter, by then I'll have 2 sets of wheels, and will make a better use of them.

[SirEspo]

Originally Posted by why?

Not about snow, about cold. And they are not rubbery if you just inflate them right. I'm on General Altimax Artic's in North Carolina. They are awesome in snow and cold, but just as good as all seasons when it is not as cold. I have mine inflated at the top of their cold inflation range and there is absolutely no rubbery feeling whatsoever. They are just excellent tires.

Bad idea. Keep it to the 35PSI the car recommends or you're going to wear out the middle of the tire extremely quickly.

The Altimax Arctics are made of a similar compound to General's all-season tires hence their versatility, but you definitely don't want to run them continually above 45-50F. They can't dissipate heat quickly enough to avoid a catastrophic failure, and too much heat combined with already putting them at their cold inflation limit will result in a blowout eventually.

[cjny]

Originally Posted by geezerbrzeezer

If I had to do it all over again though, despite my positive rating of the Blizzaks, I'd try the Nokians or another brand with a better wet/dry vs snow performance rating given that roads get salted, brined and cleared so quickly nowadays.

Yes, even most people who live in snow country end up driving on clear roads way more often than not. I'm REALLY liking the Conti WinterContact in stock size. I doubt the snow/ice performance could be much better with another tire and it's decent on wet or clear roads, at least until temps climb well above freezing.

[churchx]

cjny: i'd still rise importance of preparing to worst case scenarios, even if statistical average is better. One has relatively for winter lot of grip on well cleaned tarmac roads .. so even if some chosen tire doesn't work best there, safety margin is big enough. It's when one suddenly gets ice/snow and grip is seriously lacking .. i'd want all grip i can get in such situation, as suddenly that margin is gone for all maneuvers, accelerating, braking, steering, and depending on unexpected that may happen on roads, few meters might mean crash or avoiding it, be it braking in time or steering around or still having enough control if one tries to drift a bit .

[why?]

Originally Posted by SirEspo

Bad idea. Keep it to the 35PSI the car recommends or you're going to wear out the middle of the tire extremely quickly.

The Altimax Arctics are made of a similar compound to General's all-season tires hence their versatility, but you definitely don't want to run them continually above 45-50F. They can't dissipate heat quickly enough to avoid a catastrophic failure, and too much heat combined with already putting them at their cold inflation limit will result in a blowout eventually.

The car recommendation is for the stock tires for comfort, and for nothing else. That is all the car recommendation is for. It is totally and completely useless for anything else. It is totally and completely useless for other tires. The manufacturers of the tires know more about their own tires than Subaru. I don't get why people keep repeating such obvious stupidity.

If you go to general's website you can see the max inflation pressure is 44 psi. You'll also see the max load per tire is over 1300 lbs. Now because the USA is lawyer happy I can guarantee you can easily double both and always still be fine. But I don't have to do that, I can direct you to any of the hyper milers websites, you choose. They all have proven you can run insane psi levels and not only not have issues with the tires, but you need absurd cold psi levels before modern tires even begin to deform. There are people that run well over 60 psi and have zero issues with tire wear or any other tire issues.

And you prove yourself wrong in your own comment. If they are based off of all season tires then they are not going to have issues at higher temperatures. However there are more than a few rumors they are based off of old Nokian tires, which means they will not have issues no matter what. I could probably double the inflation and take them to VIR and run them all day and they would still come out fine. This is not 1970, tire technology has advanced amazingly, I highly doubt you could actually blow out a tire on our car without running over something or hitting something.

General tires can be run hard. I've run these things hard on warm days. I've felt them slip and slide more progressively as they've warmed up on a day that was too warm to begin with. Guess what? They still look absolutely brand new. And when it gets colder they still work awesomely.

[mynameisnick4]

Originally Posted by cjny

Yes, even most people who live in snow country end up driving on clear roads way more often than not. I'm REALLY liking the Conti WinterContact in stock size. I doubt the snow/ice performance could be much better with another tire and it's decent on wet or clear roads, at least until temps climb well above freezing.

I agree. This was my third season with the Blizzak WS80s and I drove in snow a total of ZERO times this year. With the weather being as crazy as it's been I already have taken them off because we the highs are averaging in the 60s this week. I'll probably get another season or two out of these and I'll probably switch to a less hardcore winter tire.

[SirEspo]

Originally Posted by why?

The car recommendation is for the stock tires for comfort, and for nothing else. That is all the car recommendation is for. It is totally and completely useless for anything else. It is totally and completely useless for other tires. The manufacturers of the tires know more about their own tires than Subaru. I don't get why people keep repeating such obvious stupidity.

If you go to general's website you can see the max inflation pressure is 44 psi. You'll also see the max load per tire is over 1300 lbs. Now because the USA is lawyer happy I can guarantee you can easily double both and always still be fine. But I don't have to do that, I can direct you to any of the hyper milers websites, you choose. They all have proven you can run insane psi levels and not only not have issues with the tires, but you need absurd cold psi levels before modern tires even begin to deform. There are people that run well over 60 psi and have zero issues with tire wear or any other tire issues.

And you prove yourself wrong in your own comment. If they are based off of all season tires then they are not going to have issues at higher temperatures. However there are more than a few rumors they are based off of old Nokian tires, which means they will not have issues no matter what. I could probably double the inflation and take them to VIR and run them all day and they would still come out fine. This is not 1970, tire technology has advanced amazingly, I highly doubt you could actually blow out a tire on our car without running over something or hitting something.

General tires can be run hard. I've run these things hard on warm days. I've felt them slip and slide more progressively as they've warmed up on a day that was too warm to begin with. Guess what? They still look absolutely brand new. And when it gets colder they still work awesomely.

Anecdotal evidence does nothing to prove your point.

I however work at a retail tire and service chain and deal with customer claims every week. When they run their Michelins at the max inflation pressure, on their newish Ford Explorer instead of the 35PSI the vehicle recommends, and they tell me the middle is worn out and they want new tires under warranty from Michelin, I call them and guess what? Michelin says "Nope, sorry. Customer didn't properly take care of their tires." The same goes for literally any tire manufacturer.

There are plenty of publications from the RMA (https://rma.org/publications/free-publications) about how running your tires outside manufacturer specifications affects wear.

You're right about tire technology, but tires still can't defy physics. An overinflated tire expands in the middle more than the outer belt edges due to the way tires are constructed. General makes a good compound, but unless Continental Tire owns stock in Nokian, they have no idea what kind of compound Nokian used and can really only "paraphrase", per se, the tread into something that's similar but not the same. On a molecular level, the tires are completely different I'm sure.

[Gotarheels03]

I've been quite impressed with my Continental Contiextreme Wintercontacts so far. I had the car out for one good snowfall and it was great. I thought it handled the snow better than my Hyundai Elantra with brand new Kumho 4Xii's.

I will say that 3 of my Wintercontacts were about 3 years old sitting in a warehouse. The 4th I bought brand new. We'll see if that ends up posing problems 2 or 3 winters from now. They are even pretty decent on dry roads. Better than I expected for winter tires. Braking isn't great, but they are predictable and progressive when they lose traction, and I've gotten used to the somewhat soft / floaty feeling.

I'm kinda sad that the Wintercontacts are discontinued.

[why?]

Originally Posted by SirEspo

Anecdotal evidence does nothing to prove your point.

I however work at a retail tire and service chain and deal with customer claims every week. When they run their Michelins at the max inflation pressure, on their newish Ford Explorer instead of the 35PSI the vehicle recommends, and they tell me the middle is worn out and they want new tires under warranty from Michelin, I call them and guess what? Michelin says "Nope, sorry. Customer didn't properly take care of their tires." The same goes for literally any tire manufacturer.

There are plenty of publications from the RMA (https://rma.org/publications/free-publications) about how running your tires outside manufacturer specifications affects wear.

You're right about tire technology, but tires still can't defy physics. An overinflated tire expands in the middle more than the outer belt edges due to the way tires are constructed. General makes a good compound, but unless Continental Tire owns stock in Nokian, they have no idea what kind of compound Nokian used and can really only "paraphrase", per se, the tread into something that's similar but not the same. On a molecular level, the tires are completely different I'm sure.

It isn't outside manufacturer's specs. The manufacturer's specs are on their websites. I have no idea how much pressure you'd have to run to actually get the tires to wear just in the middle, but it is probably a hell of a lot higher than any tire anywhere is rated for. The customer probably never ever checked the tires and always let the car sit in the direct sunlight. I had a tire measure 80 psi from sitting in the direct sunlight for a few days. I would not be shocked if some of these morons had tire pressure that were 80 psi before they even started going anywhere. Consumer stupidity is not what I am talking about. And don't pretend it is.

Saying what the car manufacturer recommends is anything other than a number that they used to get their epa numbers up is foolish. I'll take the words of the people that actually make the tire, thank you.