2019 Special Edition BRZ, any ideas???

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by krayzie

Or even for very little profit just to give back to the enthusiasts community cuz shareholder dividends above all else.
But when it comes to statement products or technical exercises to buck the trend I can see how once a while something would be able to sneak thru the corporate bureaucrats and get produced in the end. Maybe not in America but I take it that Theory Z management is seemingly different.

I think that you confuse what Japanese companies were doing back in the '80s and what they are doing now. Toyota is not considered a traditional Japanese company for decades. Subaru was considered a traditional company and for many even an old fashioned company. They were one of the few remaining car companies to have engineers in its board of directors. Not anymore. All these started to change back in '06 when Toyota placed their money and bought Subaru's stakes from GM. We were just lucky that the 86/BRZ project started to develop during the transition period were Subaru was still in the performance mode. A company needs time to change. Rvoll mentioned that before, but everyone ignored him. Nowadays, Subaru is an entirely different company. Just think that the Forester XT is gone. Even their racing department is placed below the marketing division, while in the past was independent.

Originally Posted by rvoll

At the time the BRZ was conceived, Subaru was more in the performance mode as a brand. Given their success in family oriented, safe, 4WD vehicles, which has had significant growth over the past few years, their corporate orientation has changed.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rvoll

Never said that, but you post so much I'm sure you get confused. Did you get your 33 posts in yesterday? You assume, wrongly, that ROI's are only calculated on "actual vehicles". That's wrong, Grasshopper, as they are calculated on ALL programs including technology investments. Everything that is not government mandated done in a large corporation is profit oriented and ROI's are calculated.....

I didn't realize that you were the head of a charity dedicated to helping the victims of buying a Twin. Not bad for a primary job. You must be a great philanthropist....

So still focused on my post count eh? Your attempts at insults are getting even weirder. The day nurse late with your medication again?

You stated repeatedly that the shareholders want a cash ROI now it can be in technology? My stance all along was that the ROI they got on this car was not cash but other aspects of the business. You kept crying "NO" and now say I don't understand?

No doubt the places you worked (which I presume included Amway, "as seen on TV" and other such mass marketing firms of high esteem did not run on the automotive management system and this is why you have such a hard time grasping such different business concepts.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rvoll

You guys from Canada are so much above it all.... But you should really look up the definition of passive-aggressive. Let's see, avoidance of direct confrontation? Really? Procrastinating? Really? Let me put it this way.... I really dislike posters who are trying to be "King of the Board" and think they are the authority on everything. So I tend to DIRECTLY CONFRONT them immediately without PROCRASTINATING. And yes, corporate development and strategy is my wheelhouse. I've spent 50 years with Fortune 100 companies doing it. And I don't generally push the envelope unless one of those "Kings of the Board" start spewing nonsense. The other areas where I have some expertise, but not specific experience on the Twins, is in the area of wheels and tires as related to performance. I do some posting on things like the phone holder solution I've done or the front sensors I've installed just for interest. But I have no need to post in other areas where I have little knowledge although I tend to read and learn a lot from the posts of others. And have learned a lot about my car from those posts. I can't tell you how much this board has meant to me just in terms of researching topics that have been covered before. And yes, even @Tcoat was helpful in some of those areas. But he is out of his element here....

Now it is "you guys from Canada"?
Nobody is trying to be King of anything nor an authority on everything.
Funny how you are shouted down by everybody except one very special nincompoop in the wheel and tires threads as well. Really shows that what you think are your "specialties" are actually your weak points.
At this point I will just consider you a very special type of troll.

[RayRay88]

Toyota is a penny pinching corporate behemoth, no doubt, but automotive companies definitely don't fit into traditional business models at the corporate level. There are a ton of pet projects and loss leaders, just because a CEO decides he wants it.

Any one who wants to dispute that Toyota is the exception can take a look at the insane amount of BILLIONS that Toyota set ablaze during their foray into F1. They then tucked their tails between their legs and left, re-purposing the mega facility they built for LMP1 development. The sheer amount they spent on F1 negated any ROI in marketing value and the LMP1 project has been a serious beat down up until recently. Neither has produced much in the way of helping correlate their current vehicle line up with their race cars.

Lemans, and more importantly Gazoo, is a testament to what a corporate leader can force the company to do, if he or she decides that is the image they want to portray.

Up until the naughts Toyota was a successful sports car manufacturer with the celica, supra, ae86, 2000 GT, and with multiple IMSA/Rallying/Endurance Car/JGTC trophy's under their belt. They just lost their way and at some point became an old mans car company, albeit a super profitable one at that. This was the whole reason they started Scion and pushed for brand reform.

Honestly, rvoll is goals. I wanna retire and attack nations on forums and argue with basically everyone, because I think i'm right.

[mrg666]

[FitchAlcyone]

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126662

[Stephen W.]

I started this thread innocently enough, just wondering aloud about what 2019 would bring. But someone thought somebody misspoke. Some other person believed they knew better and yet another decided to set everyone straight. What a total Fuster Cluck this has become. I should have asked the admins to lock this as soon as I saw it headed for the weeds.
Just to set the record straight, GM has had lots of short run, lost leader, models. Remember that retro pickup truck, the SSR? Three years of production. Or, the Pontiac Solstice, 4 years. Others makers too, like Ford and their Focus RS, 3 years and the list goes on.
Finally RayRay88 states some truths that I agree with. However, everyone missed the BIGGEST one. Akio Toyoda’s pet project, the LFA. He wanted to create a global icon supercar and he succeeded. Oh, and Lexus lost tens of thousands (maybe hundreds) on every unit sold.
Now can you adults go elsewhere to argue and name call. I understand there is some guy on tweeter who likes a good, one sided fight. We kids just want to dream about what might be coming next.

[DarkPira7e]

Originally Posted by Stephen W.

I started this thread innocently enough, just wondering aloud about what 2019 would bring. But someone thought somebody misspoke. Some other person believed they knew better and yet another decided to set everyone straight. What a total Fuster Cluck this has become. I should have asked the admins to lock this as soon as I saw it headed for the weeds.
Just to set the record straight, GM has had lots of short run, lost leader, models. Remember that retro pickup truck, the SSR? Three years of production. Or, the Pontiac Solstice, 4 years. Others makers too, like Ford and their Focus RS, 3 years and the list goes on.
Finally RayRay88 states some truths that I agree with. However, everyone missed the BIGGEST one. Akio Toyoda’s pet project, the LFA. He wanted to create a global icon supercar and he succeeded. Oh, and Lexus lost tens of thousands (maybe hundreds) on every unit sold.
Now can you adults go elsewhere to argue and name call. I understand there is some guy on tweeter who likes a good, one sided fight. We kids just want to dream about what might be coming next.

You're from Canada. Bring bacon or no peace here. This thread is like DragonBall Z. Everyone is always one muscle buldge bigger than the other. Let's all deflate our beach ball biceps and remain flaccid as requested by OP

[RayRay88]

Originally Posted by FitchAlcyone

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126662

that thread is gold. Two dinosaurs talking about how you can't make a pony cart out of a stage coach because the "the distance is not the same between the wagon wheels." Any one who can't understand the concept of modular architecture has no business discussing economies of scale or ROI in the automotive world. This isn't wal mart or a tech company.

How many engineers and specialists does it take to say the same thing, refuting them, before they start to question their own flawgic?

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Funny how you are shouted down by everybody except one very special nincompoop in the wheel and tires threads as well.

Your style is usually like this. You'll offend everyone that doesn't agree with you and you'll want to have the last word. Get over it and get a life.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Your style is usually like this. You'll offend everyone that doesn't agree with you and you'll want to have the last word. Get over it and get a life.

Read back. Who starts it every time? I respond in type with what is said to me. Ironic that you tell me to get life for participating on a forum while on a forum. I have no interest in having the last word but when people post stupid things I will say so. Since that seems to be your specialty then we have conflict more than others.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by RayRay88

Toyota is a penny pinching corporate behemoth, no doubt, but automotive companies definitely don't fit into traditional business models at the corporate level. There are a ton of pet projects and loss leaders, just because a CEO decides he wants it.

Any one who wants to dispute that Toyota is the exception can take a look at the insane amount of BILLIONS that Toyota set ablaze during their foray into F1. They then tucked their tails between their legs and left, re-purposing the mega facility they built for LMP1 development. The sheer amount they spent on F1 negated any ROI in marketing value and the LMP1 project has been a serious beat down up until recently. Neither has produced much in the way of helping correlate their current vehicle line up with their race cars.

Lemans, and more importantly Gazoo, is a testament to what a corporate leader can force the company to do, if he or she decides that is the image they want to portray.

Up until the naughts Toyota was a successful sports car manufacturer with the celica, supra, ae86, 2000 GT, and with multiple IMSA/Rallying/Endurance Car/JGTC trophy's under their belt. They just lost their way and at some point became an old mans car company, albeit a super profitable one at that. This was the whole reason they started Scion and pushed for brand reform.

Honestly, rvoll is goals. I wanna retire and attack nations on forums and argue with basically everyone, because I think i'm right.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by Stephen W.

I started this thread innocently enough, just wondering aloud about what 2019 would bring. But someone thought somebody misspoke. Some other person believed they knew better and yet another decided to set everyone straight. What a total Fuster Cluck this has become. I should have asked the admins to lock this as soon as I saw it headed for the weeds.
Just to set the record straight, GM has had lots of short run, lost leader, models. Remember that retro pickup truck, the SSR? Three years of production. Or, the Pontiac Solstice, 4 years. Others makers too, like Ford and their Focus RS, 3 years and the list goes on.
Finally RayRay88 states some truths that I agree with. However, everyone missed the BIGGEST one. Akio Toyoda’s pet project, the LFA. He wanted to create a global icon supercar and he succeeded. Oh, and Lexus lost tens of thousands (maybe hundreds) on every unit sold.
Now can you adults go elsewhere to argue and name call. I understand there is some guy on tweeter who likes a good, one sided fight. We kids just want to dream about what might be coming next.

That is how debates work. It is not until one starts resorting to slamming the individual and not staying to the topic that it falls apart. You just made the thread you don't get to control the contents.

Originally Posted by RayRay88

that thread is gold. Two dinosaurs talking about how you can't make a pony cart out of a stage coach because the "the distance is not the same between the wagon wheels." Any one who can't understand the concept of modular architecture has no business discussing economies of scale or ROI in the automotive world. This isn't wal mart or a tech company.

How many engineers and specialists does it take to say the same thing, refuting them, before they start to question their own flawgic?

This is the most basic concept in auto manufacturing today and that some people can not understand it blows my mind.

[Tcoat]

The fact that this car is planned and accepted as a low margin, low volume vehicle is stated many times by both companies.
The development story along says it many times but one snippet says it all in a couple of lines.
Toyota's own words:

[nikitopo]

You can post whatever you like. Fact is that all these are marketing material and you cannot be really sure what is the actual range of their profit. You would know only if you had an access to their financial data and if you could compare the profit with their other models. You are supposed to be a manager and you should know better.

Check attached an excerpt from Subaru side which is totally on the opposite side. They mention about a highly profitable car. Only if you had an access to the numbers you would know the reality. Rvoll mentioned that too.

Source: https://www.subaru.co.jp/en/ir/libra...r/ar_2012e.pdf