(Boosted) FRS vs S2000... Dezoris strikes again.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

For me, having a convertible was a huge inconvenience. Half the tracks/clubs around here don't allow convertibles, and those that do require a roll bar, which limits street usage. Honda never made a coupe S2000, so that made the choice easy.

How does a roll bar limit street usage? It isn't a roll cage, just a roll bar. I still think spending $1500 on a hard top and $500 on a roll bar are worth it to enjoy a coupe S2000 at the track.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by King Tut

How does a roll bar limit street usage? It isn't a roll cage, just a roll bar. I still think spending $1500 on a hard top and $500 on a roll bar are worth it to enjoy a coupe S2000 at the track.

I wouldn't feel completely comfortable driving on the street with a roll bar and no helmet. Some people have, and suffered concussions in relatively minor accidents because of the roll bar, even fully foam padded.

I might be willing to take the chance if it was just me in the car, but my wife is usually with me and (to me) it's not worth putting her at risk for my hobby.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I wouldn't feel completely comfortable driving on the street with a roll bar and no helmet. Some people have, and suffered concussions in relatively minor accidents because of the roll bar, even fully foam padded.

I might be willing to take the chance if it was just me in the car, but my wife is usually with me and (to me) it's not worth putting her at risk for my hobby.

I completely understand your view with a full cage where you have door bars and the windshield bars going forward of the main hoop, but not with a simple roll bar. If your head can make contact with it, then it should probably be mounted higher or further rear in the chassis.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by King Tut

I completely understand your view with a full cage where you have door bars and the windshield bars going forward of the main hoop, but not with a simple roll bar. If your head can make contact with it, then it should probably be mounted higher or further rear in the chassis.

That was my initial thought too, but the response I heard was that OEM seats have a large amount of give to them and in an accident, your head can move a surprising distance (combination of seat flex, neck movement, body movement). Watching those IIHS crash videos, it does look like the dummies' heads move quite a bit in the cabin.

Edit: Here's some more discussion on this.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...reet-safe.html

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by CSG David

However, the 86 is also fairly difficult to drive incredibly fast because the last two to three-tenths of the car requires incredible finesse. In that sense, the engineers did a fantastic job building that into the car.

I think that difficulty at the limit has to do with some amount of bind and flex in the bushings. I have feeling that spherical bushings will do a lot make this car sharp as a razor at the cutting edge (pun intended).

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I think it comes down to which car has the right combination of traits for your needs.

For me, having a convertible was a huge inconvenience. Half the tracks/clubs around here don't allow convertibles, and those that do require a roll bar, which limits street usage. Honda never made a coupe S2000, so that made the choice easy.

The theoretical hp/tq limits of the S2000 engine and transmission are higher, and it's easier to make power overall, but both the FR-S and S2000 will make (and handle) the maximum amount of power I'd ever be interested in making with these platforms, so it's a moot point for me.

Then there are minor things I like about the FR-S, like its foldable rear seats, gauge cluster, factory square tire setup, etc.

If there was one thing I could take from the S2000, it would be the transmission. Hands down the best shifter I've ever used. The FR-S transmission is pretty good compared to most, but can't compare to the one in the S2000.

But anyway two great cars. It's amazing that the S2000 is as competitive as it is, given how long ago it was released. Shows how good Honda was in its prime. But I suspect the answer to which is the "better" car simply comes down to what your needs are. I will say, if Honda had made an S2000 coupe, I would probably have bought one.

I've never seen a S2000 roll bar that would compromise street safety; they all sit REALLY far back.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I wouldn't feel completely comfortable driving on the street with a roll bar and no helmet. Some people have, and suffered concussions in relatively minor accidents because of the roll bar, even fully foam padded.

I might be willing to take the chance if it was just me in the car, but my wife is usually with me and (to me) it's not worth putting her at risk for my hobby.

That foam padding is a gimmick; if your head hits that foam padding, you're still a goner. But, the s2000 roll bars sit so far back that this should never be an issue, even with a tall driver.

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

That was my initial thought too, but the response I heard was that OEM seats have a large amount of give to them and in an accident, your head can move a surprising distance (combination of seat flex, neck movement, body movement). Watching those IIHS crash videos, it does look like the dummies' heads move quite a bit in the cabin.

Edit: Here's some more discussion on this.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...reet-safe.html

Even with OEM seat flex your backwards movement is limited by the rear bulkhead, which is still far in front of a proper roll bar... the OEM roll hoops should still be in front of the roll bar, if you leave them in, which will also stop you from getting anywhere near the bar itself.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Even with OEM seat flex your backwards movement is limited by the rear bulkhead, which is still far in front of a proper roll bar... the OEM roll hoops should still be in front of the roll bar, if you leave them in, which will also stop you from getting anywhere near the bar itself.

Since this is an S2000 thread. What roll bar do you and @CSG David recommend? I don't remember seeing any listed on your site.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I've never seen a S2000 roll bar that would compromise street safety; they all sit REALLY far back.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

That foam padding is a gimmick; if your head hits that foam padding, you're still a goner. But, the s2000 roll bars sit so far back that this should never be an issue, even with a tall driver.

Even with OEM seat flex your backwards movement is limited by the rear bulkhead, which is still far in front of a proper roll bar... the OEM roll hoops should still be in front of the roll bar, if you leave them in, which will also stop you from getting anywhere near the bar itself.

Damn it, now I may just have to go buy a used S2000 lol.

CSG guys... always coming up with new ways to burn a hole in my wallet.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Since this is an S2000 thread. What roll bar do you and @CSG David recommend? I don't remember seeing any listed on your site.

Ideally? You should get one custom made.

Harddog would be the next choice, followed by budget choice Rockstar.

If you want something that blends in well, the Mugen. Cusco/Safety21 is super easy, but not allowed by most US sanctioning bodies.

[drewbot]

Reading about the S2000 that I wanted to buy is like hearing about a girl you never got to bang, but others have

I needed the trunk space and occasional rear seats, though

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

I think that difficulty at the limit has to do with some amount of bind and flex in the bushings. I have feeling that spherical bushings will do a lot make this car sharp as a razor at the cutting edge (pun intended).

Careful, you're treading on the $ topic again.

Bushings are indeed important, but I'm pretty sure we've proven that it's definitely a nice to have when a point is reached in the tuning/driving realm. 99.5% of these people have not hit that point yet.

[Jaden]

There is a WHOLE lot more to being a better car than being able to rev higher or achieve higher power levels for a given boost level.

I personally wouldn't care if the s2000 performed 10 times as good and was half the price, to me it's ugly as sin, the lines are way too straight and boring...and I don't like convertibles...

I don't believe that it does though. Regardless of what you have to do to achieve the same power levels at the same power levels I believe the twin to be prettier, better and more fun to drive.

So to say the S2K is better is a misnomer based on power levels at a given boost and being able to rev higher.

I can build a gsxr motor to make 300hp and mount it where the rear seats are and rev to 12000 rpm but that wouldn't make it a better car...(yes it would decrease the integrity of the chassis and I would need to install a roll cage that i could mount the motor to etc... that's besides the point).

ok maybe it would make it better but not because I can now rev to 12000...

Opinions are like assholes, we all have them and most of the time they stink so let's just agree to disagree and go from there.

Jaden

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I've seen this come up almost daily on facebook lately...