My $600 Big Brake Kit

[eikond]

Originally Posted by P@ul

If you really want to have fun with this, the 94 + 3000GT Twin Turbo also came with these Sumitomo calipers.

40.4x2 + 42.8x2 piston setup in the front (From: Stealth 316)
38.1x2 piston setup in the rear

I don't know how the caliper bolts are spaced, but it's food for thought.

94TT Centric reman calipers for $220 + $100 core charge (From: 3SX)

Good point about 3000GT and others.. What I don't know about those is the mounting ear positions.

They key to my whole setup is the KNS Brackets that adapt the Nissan calipers to the Subaru hubs and allow for the larger Leg GT rotors. What makes this a good swap is the fact that you can get the Nissan calipers for $50-$100 each.

It would be interesting to test a set of brackets from the other manufacturers to check mounting points. We also need to investigate used caliper pricing.

[eikond]

Originally Posted by JRitt

The LGT disc will definitely have superior cooling vs. the OEM BRZ. I have no doubt of that at all. They have a considerably bigger air gap and far greater surface area. I was talking efficiency. An OEM-style blank will never have the efficiency of a good aftermarket design. You can make the air gap two inches wide, but if the vanes aren't shaped properly you're going to have a lot of turbulence relative to a design built specifically to move air. That's why a considerably smaller racing disc can run much cooler than a larger OEM-style disc.

With big brake kits, most of the kits on the market go about the same thing via two different routes. First would be the brute force method. This is typically the method employed by street BBK's. That means BIG disc and big pads. You use mass to combat heat. The second method would be efficient designs. That is the method used in racing. You use advanced technology and materials to address the heat issue at a far lower size/mass. As in every field, advanced technology is more expensive.

10-4 on the pad pricing info. Ferodo is the main brand we sell, so those are the prices I checked.

Thanks again for the input. Agreed on the concept of efficiency. Maybe a good layman's term would be "Cooling per pound". The newer, high tech rotors with upgraded materials, aluminum hats, and advanced vane design are clearly a better option. But you have to pay to play. As I've said from day 1.. if you can afford a professional BBK.. do it.. they are totally worth it! If you can't afford it.. then perhaps this setup gets you a braking upgrade at a very reasonable price.

@JRitt and @Dave-ROR Can I quote (with credits) what you've shared in terms of technical information? I'm going to write a part 2 to my article to summarize the past 4 pages of technical conversation. I still won't claim to be an expert.. but if you guys are ok with it I think I can share enough of your information to make it an interesting, informative and relatively accurate read. I want to give the pros and cons of this setup regarding brake bias, leverage, weight savings relative to rotational mass, fixed vs. sliding calipers, cooling capacity vs. efficiency, etc.. To do so properly I would like to quote you guys rather than simply paraphrasing. Is that ok?

Thanks again for all your time and info on this topic.

[JRitt]

Yes eikond, absolutely. No worries at all. I'm happy to assist with the spread of quality information across what is many times a vast sea of misinformation and conjecture!

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by eikond

5.) Easy maintenance. Pad replacement is incredibly easy with these calipers since you don't have to remove them. You just slide out the pins and top clip and slip out the pads and put in the new ones.. easy!

IMO this is actually a negative of fixed calipers. Run some pads down a lot and then tell me they are easier Flipping up the caliper and using a c clamp is very easy and without the proper (and not really cheap) tools, you have to improvise with the fixed calipers. Not difficult granted, but time consuming and you run the risk of damaging the pistons (which is why a special tool exists).


It should be noted that the iron calipers might result in a weight increase (I'm not sure what the difference in weight is and I've only held/installed the aluminum versions).


Also, larger rotors move some mass further from the hub, making that gain more critical because that mass is rotating as well.


This kit isn't extreme but that's a big reason why I'd never suggest the stupid large kits of these cars (outside of looks).

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Fett4Real

COULD be made up in the wheel...but again its not FWD so I really dont see the "feel" thing making it into the equation. However hes not running a light wheel at all...

Regardless of drive wheels, that mass still needs to rotate (and stop rotating) and the extra force is still required for that to happen. There's also a change in suspension function due to weight increases/losses but that's out of scope for this conversation.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by mike the snake

I'm going tomorrow to see if I can find a set of these calipers.

The ability to change pads by simply pulling some pins is a big win for me.

The pistons don't suck themselves back in. I'd honestly rather changes pads in my sliding calipers than the fixed calipers I have.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by eikond

Thanks again for the input. Agreed on the concept of efficiency. Maybe a good layman's term would be "Cooling per pound". The newer, high tech rotors with upgraded materials, aluminum hats, and advanced vane design are clearly a better option. But you have to pay to play. As I've said from day 1.. if you can afford a professional BBK.. do it.. they are totally worth it! If you can't afford it.. then perhaps this setup gets you a braking upgrade at a very reasonable price.

@JRitt and @Dave-ROR Can I quote (with credits) what you've shared in terms of technical information? I'm going to write a part 2 to my article to summarize the past 4 pages of technical conversation. I still won't claim to be an expert.. but if you guys are ok with it I think I can share enough of your information to make it an interesting, informative and relatively accurate read. I want to give the pros and cons of this setup regarding brake bias, leverage, weight savings relative to rotational mass, fixed vs. sliding calipers, cooling capacity vs. efficiency, etc.. To do so properly I would like to quote you guys rather than simply paraphrasing. Is that ok?

Thanks again for all your time and info on this topic.

Sure, listen to Jeff more though lol

[eikond]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

The pistons don't suck themselves back in. I'd honestly rather changes pads in my sliding calipers than the fixed calipers I have.

http://www.ttzd.com/tech/brakestech.html

You can still use c-clamp or even a big set of pliers to force the pistons back in. You just have to do them a few times since when you squeeze one the others come back out a little bit. just keep rotating around until they are far enough in. I would just make sure the clamp or pliers had some kind of rubber cover or something to make sure you don't injure the top rim of the piston.

If you really had to do it in a hurry I'm sure you could find a special tool.. maybe even make one.

[Dipstik-sportech]

Just use the pad and push them both in at the same time with a c clamp.

[mike the snake]

Last time I did a pad change on a caliper like this, I used a flathead screwdriver between the rotor and pads and pried the pads open before removing the old pads.

Turkey basted the extra brake fluid out of the resevoir, dropped the pads in, done deal.

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

The pistons don't suck themselves back in. I'd honestly rather changes pads in my sliding calipers than the fixed calipers I have.

[SomeoneWhoIsntMe]

usually I just push the pistons in by hand. not sure if that's bad or not.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by SomeoneWhoIsntMe

usually I just push the pistons in by hand. not sure if that's bad or not.

Same here. It's never been a problem for, but that's far from definitive.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by mike the snake

Last time I did a pad change on a caliper like this, I used a flathead screwdriver between the rotor and pads and pried the pads open before removing the old pads.

Turkey basted the extra brake fluid out of the resevoir, dropped the pads in, done deal.

I use old pads to pry them in to limit damage (visual and other). I still find a c-clamp once on an old pad with a slider to be far quicker and easier than at least twice, which is why I said sliders are easier to change. One time vs two minimum.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by SomeoneWhoIsntMe

usually I just push the pistons in by hand. not sure if that's bad or not.

My calipers have fairly thin wall SS pistons, not thick aluminum ones so that's a bit more of a pain (literally )