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Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB Problems, issues, recalls, TSBs


View Poll Results: Have you had an issue with your Direct Injection System?
I have had a DI issue and was fixed under warranty (Subaru) 10 12.35%
I had a DI issue that caused Engine Failure and was fixed under warranty (Subaru) 2 2.47%
I have had a DI issue and was fixed under warranty (Toyota) 31 38.27%
I have had a DI issue that caused Engine Failure and was fixed under warranty (Toyota) 3 3.70%
I have had a DI issue and denied warranty by (Subaru) 7 8.64%
I have had a DI issue and denied warranty by (Toyota) 14 17.28%
I had a DI issue that caused Engine Failure and was Denied warranty (Subaru) 8 9.88%
I had a DI issue that caused Engine Failure and was Denied warranty (Toyota) 6 7.41%
Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-07-2013, 11:07 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf View Post
Well, that sucks. I wonder what the members, *cough Toyota employees, defending the denial of warranty for the guys having seal and detonation issues are going to say now...
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Old 07-07-2013, 12:17 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by SUB-FT86 View Post
I guess the driver was either terrible in that video or the car isn't as neutral around corners. Looked like understeer to me.
They do understeer! Terribly, out of the box!

Better tyres and more rear bar helps, to a point !
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Old 07-07-2013, 01:48 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Dezoris View Post
Super news, what were the issues with spark plugs, obviously just melting down?

I think he was referring to the coil pack issue. He said the VW's and Suzuki were pretty much trouble free even though they had more Km's



Quote:
Originally Posted by ft_sjo View Post
They do understeer! Terribly, out of the box!

Better tyres and more rear bar helps, to a point !
These were running Federal 595 RS-R coilovers and thats it. Sirocco i drove also had Federals and i was quite surprised with the amount of grip they had.

http://www.federaltire.com/en/produc...ts_detail_sn=5
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Old 07-07-2013, 01:52 PM   #172
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I think he was referring to the coil pack issue. He said the VW's and Suzuki were pretty much trouble free even though they had more Km's


Did anyone ever determine if its the coils failing overheating DI or vice versa? Or is it still back to the tuning problems?
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Old 07-07-2013, 01:54 PM   #173
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Super news, what were the issues with spark plugs, obviously just melting down?
my electrode broke inside the cylinder. i was lucky enough that it came out of the exhaust valve
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Old 07-07-2013, 01:59 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by regal View Post
Not as many people are tracking these as you think and they are short sessions. The track/autocross forum here is pretty stagnant compared to a Miata forum. The power users like cgsmike are the ones falling victim first.
The disturbing part is how few track miles are actually on the car. The locals will tell you that while the car is often present at the car, it rarely does more than a handful of laps on a given day as we're testing parts or giving rides. The majority of the car's miles are street miles. AFAIK, the car had about 25-26k miles on the odo when it was towed to the dealer...
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Old 07-07-2013, 02:57 PM   #175
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I figured this thread could use some perspective from a former RX8 owner who got a up close and personal view of a sports car with engine reliability issues (my 2004 never had a seal issue and was still going strong on the original engine at 85k - thanks royal purple).

First, if there really is a problem that can lead to catastrophic engine failure, Toyota/Subaru will eventually be forced to acknowledge and remedy the issue, likely with a updated flash (done) and an extended power train warranty like Mazda did with the RX8 (8 years or 100k).

I believe that Subaru was working on its own DI system for the car which is likely to be a 14-15 change? which may or may not remedy the issue limiting the issue to '13 vehicles. For those of us with MY 13 cars I would start exploring the following strategies below.


The best way to get Toyota/Subaru to acknowledge the issue (if there is one) is to reach out to the auto media, Autoblog, Car and Driver, Edmunds and Road and Track would be a good start. they all have long term test cars (most of which are nearing the end of their 20k test period) and they would likely jump on the issue. Folks should start emailing them. This worked for the RX8 (do a search for RX8 and mulligan in google if you want to read about that saga).

Next, it appears we may need stronger injector seals. fortunately, this isn't the first car with the issue and it appears that the Mazda DISI engine in the speed 3,6, and CX7 had seal issue and CP-e Engineering helped develop a better seal. we should reach out to them for the high horsepower/track guys as there is a ton of potential to sell a similar product given the aftermarket love for the car.

Current owners should keep could maintenance records on their cars, nothing crazy just save your maintenance receipts if you do the work yourself and keep a log (a good idea anyways).

The issues above while concerning are not yet in my opinion a reason to completely freak out. without knowing build dates, mileage and other driving conditions its hard to tell how wide spread the issue is. It appears to have shown up mostly in cars driven hard which means its pretty limited in terms of total number of vehicles at this point. Of course those are the true enthusiasts who often find themselves pseudo Guinea Pigs for stress testing the first model year out.

The only folks that "could" be in a pickle are the FI guys if you suffered a engine issue down the road. If your not experiencing the issue currently (we have several local guys who haven't had any issues) and you've been reflashed at this point I would just look for upgraded parts in the future to remedy the problem. Again we should reach out to CP-e engineering and find out how they fixed the DISI problems.
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Old 07-07-2013, 03:09 PM   #176
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Dammit, when will it stop raining??? Not one sunny day in two weeks!
I thought we were the only ones. Rain everyday!
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Old 07-07-2013, 03:30 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post
Its time to take the issue public.




Not as many people are tracking these as you think and they are short sessions. The track/autocross forum here is pretty stagnant compared to a Miata forum. The power users like cgsmike are the ones falling victim first.






Every car failed. Its an ideal accelerated wear test. All this means is if you drive spirited it will affect you eventually, how many miles is the only question.

With engines seizing from this I don't blame that rental company from dropping the twins, that is a serious safety hazard not only on the track but on the street.
Not trying to discredit you, but this is FAR from a widespread issue. I'm not saying that it's not an issue, but this is now my third forum with cars that have, or were said to have "common catastrophic failures" due to [enter your failed part here]. In every case, there were really no reasons for the failures, plenty of ideas from internet mechanics and engineers, but nothing solid. In each case there was no reason why it started as all the cars varied from daily drivers, to track warriors, to the weekend driver....in each category, there were FAR MORE people doing the same activities with zero issues. But for some reason, people LOVE to scream fire when they see a little smoke.

Now lets take a look on this forum. We have 36,505 (as of 12:07 pacific time on July 6th 2013). Lets assume that what....half of them actually own an FRS/BRZ/GT86? (might be a little low, but oh well). We are up to 17 people with an issue on this forum. So 17 divided by 18,252 total owners and you get 0.0009314 of the total community owners have this issue.

Now here is the list of the current cars built from Spaceywilly's thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceywilly View Post
I usually check the sales results every month so I thought I would collect them all in one place. Here are the results so far and I will try to update it each month.


PHP Code:
Month      BRZ MTD     BRZ YTD     BRZ ALL     FRS MTD     FRS YTD     FRS ALL
May 12         271         271                      86          86
Jun 12         818        1089                    2684        2770
Jul 12         498        1587                    1649        4419
Aug 12         623        2210                    1913        6332
Sep 12         508        2718                    1133        7465
Oct 12         402        3120                    1107        8572  
Nov 12         527        3647                    1350        9922
Dec 12         497        4144                    1495       11417
Jan 13         463         463       4607         1443        1443      12860
Feb 13         420         883       5027         1369        2812      14229  
Mar 13         905        1788       5932         1828        4640      16057
Apr 13         812        2600       6744         1629        6269      17686
May 13         679        3279       7423         1937        8206      19623
Jun 13         789        4068       8212         1815       10021      21438 
There is a point where it can become a concern and it's simply not there yet. A forum is hardly a place to gather real facts or statistics about failures due to the fact that there are a LOT of FRS/BRZ/GT86 owners that will never visit this site and vote in the poll. Only toyota and subaru will ever know the true statistics and based on what I hear about them being amazing at addressing any MAJOR issues, I'm not really overly concerned. If I have to deal with a DI failing, I'll deal with it then. 0.09% falure out of 18k owners is not something I'm going to park my car for or make a big stink to toyota about.
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Old 07-07-2013, 03:34 PM   #178
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After my little diatribe I decided to put my money where my mouth was and I emailed autoblog, Motortrend, Edmunds and Custom Performance Engineering. Here are their email addresses/ links for contact. Make some noise people.....

tips@caranddriver.com
info@cp-e.com
https://help.edmunds.com/anonymous_requests/new
http://www.motortrend.com/staff/christian_seabaugh/
http://www.autoblog.com/contact/tips/
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Old 07-07-2013, 03:34 PM   #179
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I guess I have to start pushing my car on daily basis. I don't want to mask a potential problem by babying the car. Better to have something fail while I'm within the warranty period.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:38 PM   #180
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I would think if your car is stock and under warranty you shouldn't worry but after the warranty time expires you should jump on that coverage. I need to check if my insurance has the same thing.
my insurance (geico) only offers it for 1st owner, first 15 months or 15k miles, after that cant be added, then it can be kept on for up to 7 years. I do wonder if i choose to add it at the tail end of that window if the price will go up, or if the price will increase as the car ages. It does have a $250 deductible, but thats meaningless on any repair the coverage would actually be used for.

actually not incredibly worried about this car due to the use it will see, but goddamn i wish gfs dsg tdi vw had that coverage going, that thing i'm scared to own after 60k with its potential points for catastrophic disaster.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:41 PM   #181
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my insurance (geico) only offers it for 1st owner, first 15 months or 15k miles, after that cant be added, then it can be kept on for up to 7 years.

actually not incredibly worried about this car due to the use it will see, but goddamn i wish gfs dsg tdi vw had that coverage going, that thing i'm scared to own after 60k with its potential points for catastrophic disaster.
I had the geico mechanical ins on my last vette... Never had to use it... But it was very affordable seemed like a descent plan. My FRS came with a lifetime power train warranty from my dealer.. So.. Will see..
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Old 07-07-2013, 08:55 PM   #182
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Not trying to discredit you, but this is FAR from a widespread issue. I'm not saying that it's not an issue, but this is now my third forum with cars that have, or were said to have "common catastrophic failures" due to [enter your failed part here]. In every case, there were really no reasons for the failures, plenty of ideas from internet mechanics and engineers, but nothing solid. In each case there was no reason why it started as all the cars varied from daily drivers, to track warriors, to the weekend driver....in each category, there were FAR MORE people doing the same activities with zero issues. But for some reason, people LOVE to scream fire when they see a little smoke.

Now lets take a look on this forum. We have 36,505 (as of 12:07 pacific time on July 6th 2013). Lets assume that what....half of them actually own an FRS/BRZ/GT86? (might be a little low, but oh well). We are up to 17 people with an issue on this forum. So 17 divided by 18,252 total owners and you get 0.0009314 of the total community owners have this issue.

Now here is the list of the current cars built from Spaceywilly's thread


There is a point where it can become a concern and it's simply not there yet. A forum is hardly a place to gather real facts or statistics about failures due to the fact that there are a LOT of FRS/BRZ/GT86 owners that will never visit this site and vote in the poll. Only toyota and subaru will ever know the true statistics and based on what I hear about them being amazing at addressing any MAJOR issues, I'm not really overly concerned. If I have to deal with a DI failing, I'll deal with it then. 0.09% falure out of 18k owners is not something I'm going to park my car for or make a big stink to toyota about.
I'm sure that's exactly how toyota/subaru views these issues so far.

However this view on those stats seems a bit shortsighted:

- The issues seems to be happening with the cars that have about over 20K miles and/or are tracked. Considering the car has been out for about a year, why don't you think and reflect how many cars already have over 20K and how many cars out of those have been driven often between 4-7K rpm?

- Not all people share their issues with DI, and not all who did have voted on this thread.

- The problem does have a high potential to be a widespread issue and that high potential is what pretty much stops many people who would gladly mod their cars from doing it.

Considering we are a year or even two away from seeing the problem is a widespread, i wonder how many decide not to deal with this BS and switch to some other platform new miata, Z, heck even mustang or camaro if they manage to put those pigs on a diet or some used cars where 135i seems the best match for money.

Btw, those who ignore little smoke often get a wild fire on their hands shortly. Folks from subaru/toyota should act before community of enthusiasts started leaving this platform labeling it as too problematic and money pit. IMO
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