The Yamaha Difference

[Exage]

This is a technical thread to show the differences which Yamaha made to the 1ZZ-FE in creating the 2ZZ-GE.

It is intended to show the difference between the run of the mill 1ZZ-FE engine that powers a large number of Toyota vehicles produced from 1998-2008 code named Izzy from the screaming 2ZZ-GE found in the 2000-2005 Celica GT-S, 2003-2006 XRS models, Corolla RunX, Lotus: Elise, Exige, and 2-Eleven that is code named Dizzy.

I hope that this has some relevance of what we may expect some of the differences between the FB20 engine and the FB engine that is powering the FT86 and FR-S at production, due to this being the last sport compact engine that Yamaha and Toyota last created.

The expensive 2UR-GSE V8 in the Lexus IS-F, and the 1LR-GUE V10 in the Lexus LFA (I'm sure you'll agree) can't be considered sport compact engines.

I do not expect VVTL-i or MMC to return but there will be other performance enhancements to such as D4-S and other goodies.

Enjoy! I hope you can follow along and hopefully this will give you some ideas and discussion topics on what you can expect for the engine. Feel free to discuss any ideas that pop into your head after viewing the following pages for the FT-86/FR-S engine. If you have any problems with the technical terms they can be discussed in great length in Dimmans' Engine Tech thread: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1059

If you're having trouble reading:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/54981469/2...ne-Development
http://www.scribd.com/doc/54981523/2...ne-Description


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[OldSkoolToys]

I just had an automotive/Toyota nut nerdgasm!

Thank you VERY much for this!

[Midship Runabout]

Good stuff

[Infernal]

awesome document

[4agze]

Is it confirm that yamaha is adding its magic on this FB20 motor? Can't find any official note or quote from toyotas higher up people.

[xantonin]

Loved the bit on MMC.

Also interesting is the bit on the gasoline choice. Apparently aside from higher octane number, higher octane gas also has less sulfur which wears away the cylinder walls. I'm not sure that was mentioned in the above 2 documents though... so I'll leave a present at the bottom of this post.

Originally Posted by 4agze

Is it confirm that yamaha is adding its magic on this FB20 motor? Can't find any official note or quote from toyotas higher up people.

It's confirmed that Yamaha is working on the head design, but not for which engine.

[Ryephile]

Thanks for posting! :happy0180:

[Random_Art]

Not that I'd expect Lift to make a comeback in this, but I'd have to wonder how a boxer engine would respond to such technology.

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by Random_Art

Not that I'd expect Lift to make a comeback in this, but I'd have to wonder how a boxer engine would respond to such technology.

Most likely the same way, the boxer engine is still a conventional design and responds to the same variables as other similar combustion engines.

In the EJ engines grinded cams with a higher lift had some really good gains with no draw backs to the drivabiliity or economy.

If Yamaha has a play in the development of a performance version of the FB20, delivering an efficient 200-250hp is a walk in the park.

[Random_Art]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

Most likely the same way, the boxer engine is still a conventional design and responds to the same variables as other similar combustion engines.

In the EJ engines grinded cams with a higher lift had some really good gains with no draw backs to the drivabiliity or economy.

If Yamaha has a play in the development of a performance version of the FB20, delivering an efficient 200-250hp is a walk in the park.

So long as they mate it to a transmission with decent shift points. Not like toyota did on the Celica where the first couple of shifts at drop you out of lift.

[RRnold]

Nice! Mods should make this a sticky :happy0180:

[Matador]

I have those PDFS stashed somewhere, still, Nice thread.... however, the 1ZZ is almost a totally different engine to the 2ZZ isn't it? The work Yamaha did developing the heads isn't close to the extent of the differences between the two.

I mention this because I don't expect to see that radical of a change between the FB20 and whatever engine designation rests in the FT-86/FRS... It would be nice to have such a pleasant surprise though, not to mention the 40% power boost between the two variants

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

I have those PDFS stashed somewhere, still, Nice thread.... however, the 1ZZ is almost a totally different engine to the 2ZZ isn't it? The work Yamaha did developing the heads isn't close to the extent of the differences between the two.

I mention this because I don't expect to see that radical of a change between the FB20 and whatever engine designation rests in the FT-86/FRS... It would be nice to have such a pleasant surprise though, not to mention the 40% power boost between the two variants

Thats Yamaha's trademark though....it was the same on the 4A-GE vs. the regular 4A-C, which netted a ~33% power increase from using the Yamaha engineered head (using U.S. 4A-C rated 90hp vs. Japanese 4A-GE 120hp).

Use that same % and you get a power increase on the FB20 from 148 to 196....strikingly close to their rumored HP output.

I think the biggest factor though is that the car's power will HAVE to be in the 200-215 mark for it to be competitive in the sales market against other cars, for the general buyer. I have obviously stated my regards on the hp for this car (As it not really caring all that much), but from the overall business aspect, for sales, they gotta keep it at a certain point. Not only sales, but pride I would hope! Toyota pushed the limit in the early 80's for power output in a 1.6L (beating out Honda by 1 year! HA! eat that honda boys!), did it again in the same engine class in the mid 90's with their final version of the 4A-GE, and we would hope that would motivate them to once again show they can provide a healthy power output in the 2.0L class while maintaining strict emission and MPG standards.

At the very least we know it won't be below 180hp...thats where the tC sits...and they certainly won't let their new flagship car be 'outgunned' by a lesser model.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

Thats Yamaha's trademark though....it was the same on the 4A-GE vs. the regular 4A-C, which netted a ~33% power increase from using the Yamaha engineered head (using U.S. 4A-C rated 90hp vs. Japanese 4A-GE 120hp).

Use that same % and you get a power increase on the FB20 from 148 to 196....strikingly close to their rumored HP output.

I think the biggest factor though is that the car's power will HAVE to be in the 200-215 mark for it to be competitive in the sales market against other cars, for the general buyer. I have obviously stated my regards on the hp for this car (As it not really caring all that much), but from the overall business aspect, for sales, they gotta keep it at a certain point. Not only sales, but pride I would hope! Toyota pushed the limit in the early 80's for power output in a 1.6L (beating out Honda by 1 year! HA! eat that honda boys!), did it again in the same engine class in the mid 90's with their final version of the 4A-GE, and we would hope that would motivate them to once again show they can provide a healthy power output in the 2.0L class while maintaining strict emission and MPG standards.

At the very least we know it won't be below 180hp...thats where the tC sits...and they certainly won't let their new flagship car be 'outgunned' by a lesser model.

When I said radical change I didn't mean power wise. I meant in the architecture of the engine it self, bore, stroke etc. Like I also said, it would be a rather pleasant surprise were that the case, though I expect the differences to lie in compression ratio, valve sizes, cams, redline and of course Direct Injection.

I fully expect this engine to be at least 200bhp.