Edelbrock E-force Owner's thread and FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions)

[Freeman]

Dumb question... 86fun you've got at least 91 octane in the tank right?

[86fun]

Originally Posted by Freeman

Dumb question... 86fun you've got at least 91 octane in the tank right?

Yep, that's correct, California 91.

[86fun]

Originally Posted by Apoc

You seem to have had some serious knock events since your advance multiplier is down to .4. I would suggest not running it hard or uphill at 1500 rpm until you get it sorted.

Knock correction sat at 0 the whole time, but the learned value changed a bit. Not sure how these correlate exactly. If there is any significant ignition retard taking place I only feel it possibly between 2-3k RPMs. 3k+ RPMs are pretty smooth, except one or two 3rd gear passes had a very slight lumpiness to them, but nothing like I've experienced in other cars... I will hold off on any full throttle runs until I sort it out though just to be safe!

[shiumai]

Originally Posted by 86fun

With too low a gear the engine/drivetrain vibrates and there is no acceleration with any kind of input of throttle. The power delivery is still smooth. I'm calling that lugging.

yup, i agree with that description.

[BigFatFlip]

Oooooh is that @MicheleAbbate rockin the E-force this season?

[Freude am Fahren]

Is that two flex fuel units? Do you need to do that once you start pushing more fuel than standard injectors/pump? Backup/redundancy for racing purposes?

[86fun]

Help! Hey guys, I'm really struggling here to figure out the problem with my setup.


The problem is: Heavy knock causing ignition retard/rich AFR/other safety measures at low load levels(part throttle, ~2psi boost from the SC). This results in hesitation and bucking. Higher load levels don't seem to have an issue.


I've had California 91 octane from two different sources, but the issue persists.


The car is practically new, '13 FRS with 13,200k miles, never tracked, never had any issues with it. The only mod it has ever had came with the car from the dealer, a TRD cat back. It has never had a CEL thrown, even with the current issues.


No excessive oil in PCV, EGR, or intake tubes.


Car, stock, dyno'd the same as the average FA20, no loss of power.


I've checked for any air leaks, none can be found.


The install looks 100%, rechecked several times.


Cooling systems have been bled properly.


Ambient testing conditions are sea level and ~50's F


I guess I'm just reaching out for ideas on things to check for...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by BigFatFlip

Oooooh is that @MicheleAbbate rockin the E-force this season?

Edelbrock + Ace should be Delicious

[Uplink]

Originally Posted by BigFatFlip

Oooooh is that @MicheleAbbate rockin the E-force this season?

Is it wrong that my takeaway from that video was, 'Proof the Mishimoto cooler fits with the EB.'

[DeliciousTuning]

Originally Posted by Freude am Fahren

Is that two flex fuel units? Do you need to do that once you start pushing more fuel than standard injectors/pump? Backup/redundancy for racing purposes?

All will be made clear, soon

[BigFatFlip]

Originally Posted by 86fun

The problem is: Heavy knock causing ignition retard/rich AFR/other safety measures at low load levels(part throttle, ~2psi boost from the SC). This results in hesitation and bucking. Higher load levels don't seem to have an issue.

Not to state the obvious, but have you called Edelbrock tech support at all? During my install, my installer mentioned that Edelbrock would like logs if I was having any issues.

Regarding the "hesitation and bucking" that you were observing, maybe take a video of it? I'm no expert, but based my layman knowledge and your description (low rpm, high load), isn't it no surprise that its lugging? isn't this what happens with high compression, low displacement engines anyway (NA or FI)? I'd hazard a guess that since we have to run 91 (lower octance fuel), that the only way to avoid (pre)detonation with the SC is to retard timing during those conditions. I definitely experienced the same when I was stock, but has since gotten a lot less ever since the SC install. During stock, I've found that the engine likes to be at around 2.5-3k rpm, but now I've been able to hang around 2-3k with no "lugging".

Also, someone had told me that the CARB tune has the same exact throttle mapping as stock. I've always felt the stock throttle mapping had a "rubber band" feel to it, and I definitely feel the same with the CARB tune. Not saying its bad (good for daily driving), but I've driven a friend's car that had a more "linear" throttle map, and sure, its more responsive, but it sure was "jumpy" around the street.

I guess, worse comes to worse, you can always try a different tune, local or e-tune like delicious or something?

Sorry if I'm not much help, good luck. Hoping you resolve it soon so you can just enjoy your SC.

[86fun]

Hey BFF thanks for the input!


It's possible to have part throttle and low load at higher RPMs as well, and it behaves the same there, so rules out lugging in too lower a gear. I just used a lower gear during logging to make it easier to read in the log. It seems to possibly be related to the onset of boost, seeing knock start at 2psi and light loading. In the log we can see the ECU falling into "save my ass" mode (knock, then major ignition retard, AFR goes super rich, etc), so it is definitely a problem. Long term I think this could lead to head gasket failure, or piston/rod failure, etc. It's not good to run with lots of knock, the safety mechanisms aren't meant to be actively used to run the engine at all times.


Something has to be amiss, just not sure what yet.


I've checked the install so many times I nearly have it memorized. I really wish it was a mistake I made and I could just correct it and move forward, but so far nothing is standing out.


I need it to be CARB legal when the EO is released, so a non-CARB tune won't really work long term, but I am still wondering if the CARB tune just doesn't work for all engines, perhaps they vary a bit and the tune is just too close to the limits of the engine to work across multiple different engines with very slight dynamics and differences. It's an adventure so far, can't wait until it's over!


I'm continuing to work with Edelbrock and their Calibrator to figure it out, will update if we come up with anything!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by 86fun

Hey BFF thanks for the input!


It's possible to have part throttle and low load at higher RPMs as well, and it behaves the same there, so rules out lugging in too lower a gear. I just used a lower gear during logging to make it easier to read in the log. It seems to possibly be related to the onset of boost, seeing knock start at 2psi and light loading. In the log we can see the ECU falling into "save my ass" mode (knock, then major ignition retard, AFR goes super rich, etc), so it is definitely a problem. Long term I think this could lead to head gasket failure, or piston/rod failure, etc. It's not good to run with lots of knock, the safety mechanisms aren't meant to be actively used to run the engine at all times.


Something has to be amiss, just not sure what yet.


I've checked the install so many times I nearly have it memorized. I really wish it was a mistake I made and I could just correct it and move forward, but so far nothing is standing out.


I need it to be CARB legal when the EO is released, so a non-CARB tune won't really work long term, but I am still wondering if the CARB tune just doesn't work for all engines, perhaps they vary a bit and the tune is just too close to the limits of the engine to work across multiple different engines with very slight dynamics and differences. It's an adventure so far, can't wait until it's over!


I'm continuing to work with Edelbrock and their Calibrator to figure it out, will update if we come up with anything!

Are you local? I'd like to take your car for a drive to see if I can replicate and log the issue for Edelbrock.

[86fun]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Are you local? I'd like to take your car for a drive to see if I can replicate and log the issue for Edelbrock.

Damn, wish I was! I'm in Norcal (Bay Area) though. I could video it, but really, you need to have you foot on the pedal and then feel what the car does as you depress the pedal to experience it fully. We do have the logs showing the knock and safety measures kicking in, but I understand feeling it is different than seeing a log! It feels just like my turbo cars did in the past when they hit heavy ignition retard. Lots of loss of power and uneven power delivery. I would imagine most people would think something is at least slightly wrong if they felt it, but I suppose if you just drove all out all the time you could miss it... especially since the other 90% of the power band seems fine.


Before I knew what knock was, I had a turbo car with intermittent knock/ignition retard until it blew the head gasket and excessively wore my piston bores oval over time. After rebuilding a couple engines myself after blowing them I've learned what knock/ignition retard feels like


I have sent a few different logs over to the "Calibrators" and Mike, they should have enough logs hopefully... appreciate the offer for help though!