Tesla Autopilot failed to notice a tractor trailer

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

"Risk compensation is a theory which suggests that people typically adjust their behavior in response to the perceived level of risk, becoming more careful where they sense greater risk and less careful if they feel more protected. Although usually small in comparison to the fundamental benefits of safety interventions, it may result in a lower net benefit than expected.
By way of example, it has been observed that motorists drove faster when wearing seatbelts and closer to the vehicle in front when the vehicles were fitted with anti-lock brake."

Wikipedia

Except in the case of Autopilot people would be driving slower with more distance while driving less aggressive, except they are less engaged. The argument might be that they would reengage during curves in the road or during lane changes initially, but the more they realize the system can manage those situations without driver input, the less often they reengage. Eventually, there is an event when they should reengage, but they don’t out of complacency and over-dependence, and it is too late. So should we get rid of Autopilot, ABS and seat belts, so people drive safer?

My wife and I discussed getting a Tesla Model X or Y, but felt Autopilot wasn’t worth the cost at Level 2. Adaptive cruise control and lane assistant that disengages around every turn where the steering wheel goes beyond twenty degrees or something would be ideal, but we don’t need or want the car managing tight turns, lane changes or cramped traffic situations until it is Level 4 or 5.

Everyone acts like Tesla is wanting to beta test their system on drivers. If anything, drivers are beta testing Tesla’s system for them when it isn’t needed. Like I said before, Tesla is running simulations against the driver’s inputs constantly, so they don’t need people to have their hands off the steering wheel to get information to build their neural network.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I don't know if he's being deceitful or not, although I will say Musk will always spin things in the best light possible for his situation. That's what he's best at, and why I don't but a lot of stock into what he says. In the end he usually accomplishes what he says he will, which I respect and admire, but he's going to say what benefits his company, as he should. He's also going to spin the numbers to his benefit, as pretty much any non-independent study will do.

What i haven't seen is a comparison if the severity of the accidents between their Class Two automation and people driving their cars. For example, how many fatal accidents per mile driven are there between the two, or the cost of repair on average between the two? Maybe I just missed it.

Of course, one could argue that his extreme spinning of things might be a pure product of the volume and intensity of negative spinning that is done against EVs in general, but more so to Telsa. Even Jay Leno said, to summarize, 'I don't get it. Here is an American car company making cars in America, and they are constantly getting shit on that their vehicles will fail, their stocks will crash and that their company will go bankrupt'. Reminds me of how the big three pushed out Tucker.

Like I said, I can't imagine he is lying about the safety of Autopilot relative to not using Autopilot, such that, Autopilot is less safe or no safer than a human behind the wheel. I believe the argument against Autopilot is analogous to guns. 'Guns don't kill people; people kill people', or it is the idea that there might be hundreds of millions of guns with tens of millions of gun owners and a small subset abuse guns or have an accident with guns. Therefore (people argue), we need to eliminate guns. Similarly, people are putting millions of miles on Autopilot and only a few are abusing it or finding very odd situations where it fails, coupled with person neglect, so we should eliminate Autopilot. Never mind that Autopilot might be saving more lives than we know (how do we get data on that, except to compare Teslas with and without Autopilot, but that data is from Tesla so conspiracy?). Time will tell, or the government or judge will order Tesla to release their raw data. Then we will know for sure.

[soundman98]

They're not a car company, they're a tech company that happens to make cars!

I still don't understand the distinction...

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Similarly, people are putting millions of miles on Autopilot and only a few are abusing it or finding very odd situations where it fails, coupled with person neglect, so we should eliminate Autopilot. Never mind that Autopilot might be saving more lives than we know (how do we get data on that, except to compare Teslas with and without Autopilot, but that data is from Tesla so conspiracy?). Time will tell, or the government or judge will order Tesla to release their raw data. Then we will know for sure.

I agree that most cases of Autopilot "failure" is a result of a neglectful user. You could do the same with standard cruise control. Set the speed to 60 MPH then let your mind wander off until you run off the road or hit the car in front of you. Standard cruise control has no fail-safes, and L2 automation at least has some. In that way, I suppose autopilot is no worse and at least moves the safety needle a bit.

(I have this image of a teenage driver around 2040 getting into his Dad's "classic" 2013 FR-S and crashing it because he sets the cruise control and doesn't realize it doesn't control steering)

I agree with some that have said that part of the issue is the manufacturers all trying to spin what is the same thing. If they would standardize their language and just call it all the same, say "Level 2 Cruise Control" or some such most of my argument goes away. GM's "Super Cruise" is a better name (and to some extent a better technology IMO)

[bcj]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

GM's "Super Cruise" is a better name ...

That's about informative as "El Mundo Lucha Cruz"

(my first mod: it's a sticker)

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by bcj

That's about informative as "El Mundo Lucha Cruz"

(my first mod: it's a sticker)

Perhaps, but I find it less misleading because it uses current understood conventions. As I said, I really prefer a more standardized approach across the industry, but in the end no one is asking me!

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

but in the end no one is asking me!

What's the capital of Peru?

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

What's the capital of Peru?

trick question. it's just a town in indiana!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

What's the capital of Peru?