Jackson Racing Supercharger Press Release and Info

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by buditjoenawan

It depends on when and where you take the reading. The only time I'm interested in IATs is when the motor is seeing load (ie, intent to accelerate) and as close to the heads as possible; and unless the compressed air passes through liquid nitrogen or has an inverse relationship to reality, compressed air can never be cooler than non-compressed air. Physics right?

The level of cheerleading on this site is very comical at times. If you had told me that the amount of air ingested is far more important than the temperature of air (assuming we aren't talking about a delta of 100 degree celsius), I can accept that. Or if you said that the intercooler normalizes the source of intake, I can also accept that. But under load, there is no way a car with forced induction ingests cooler air than the same car without FI.

Mike, you are familiar with Buttonwillow. So claiming a 2:01 is a fast lap while insinuating that it's due to the supercharger strikes me as being a bit disingenuous. I know a few stock (200whp) S2000 with coilovers, tires and pads lap the 13CW in 1:58. I give ALL the credit to the driver, whomever drove that 2:01 lap put in a great lap. I would be curious if the same high level of driving in a stock power car can come close.

- budi

A few things. At cruise RPM, IAT is lower than stock. At WOT, air is being compressed, so IAT is higher than stock (~40F or so higher than ambient when it's FULLY heat soaked from on-track use is my understanding), but output is also increased 45% or so. The FMIC is efficient enough that as soon as you lift, IAT will plummet back to just over ambient in seconds, and slowly climb as you stay WOT over ~25 seconds.

As another data point, we use the same C30-94 with a FMIC setup on our S2ks, and the results are identical with a similar "hot air intake". Our intake is BEHIND the FMIC/Oil cooler/AC condenser/Radiator stack, but IAT remains less than 10F over ambient at cruising, and we have a few hundred hours of logging to back that up. At WOT with a 85% output gain over stock, we never see more than 40F higher than ambient. Also, the C30-94 intake temps on the S2k are universally LOWER than the stock intake, regardless of load. All temps are measured about 8 inches in front of the throttle body.

While IAT will be higher, the location of the intake itself isn't that important when you're running FI with proper intake charge cooling; the actual mass of air flowing into the engine is still increased substantially.

Whether Oscar Jr. is a faster driver than me is... unknown. However, here are the facts. All cars have race pads; they don't increase performance. The pads prevent brake fade and performance degredation.

2:06.2 - Stock car record (100% stock) (Mike Kang)
2:04.99 - Stock car with 225 RS3 ONLY (no alignment, etc) (Chris Willard)
2:03.75 - AST 4150 + 255 RS3 + alignment (Emilio Cervantes)
2:02.8 - JRZ RS + 255 RS3 + alignment (Renzo Marsano)
2:01.x - FRS + Jackson Racing SC (Oscar Jackson Jr.)
2:01.x - Evasive BRZ - Tein SRC + 245 AD08 + aero + alignment (Rob Walker)
2:01.3 - CSG BRZ - Tein SRC CSG spec + 225 RS3 + alignment + BBK (Mike Kang)
2:00.xx - CSG BRZ - Tein SRC CSG spec + 235 RC1 + alignment + BBK (Mike Kang)
1:59.xx - Crawford BRZ (Bill Caswell)
1:59.xx - Evasive FRS (Rob Walker)

Emilio, Renzo, Oscar, Bill, and Rob are all world class drivers, and all leagues faster than me, and are much more accomplished.

Emilio - Owner of 949 Racing, winner of 25 hours of Thunderhill (longest enduro in the world)
Renzo Marsan - President of Mar Financial, multiple Global Time Attack podiums
Oscar Jackson Jr. - Jackson Racing, winner of 25 hours of Thunderhill, Honda Challenge, etc.
Bill Caswell - 2nd place at WRC in a $500 BMW 318...
Rob Walker - Pike's Peak

I know a few stock (200whp) S2000 with coilovers, tires and pads lap the 13CW in 1:58.

Who? I don't know any, and I'm intimately familiar with the S2k world. That would make them faster than ALL of the above listed drivers and then some. I'd also want to hire them to coach me.

*edit* I think it's possible with hoosiers... but we don't benchmark with hoosiers out here.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

Does it use liquid nitrogen cooling or something?

All the compressed fanboyism must have a powerful effect on charge cooling.

Originally Posted by jamesm

it has an intercooler. my intake is in the front bumper, so not quite the same, but i see intake temps a few degrees above or even sometimes below ambient with my turbo and intercooler.

Uh, I'm not sure you understand how it works.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

IAT is lower than stock

So the charger isn't heating up the engine bay ambient air and that stainless (or aluminum) piping that the intake cone sits on? I call bullpoop.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

blah blah blah

I like you Mike, but what I see here is a bunch of "on an S2K a similar kit does xyz." I will wait for independent confirmation once these kits hit the streets.

[CajunFRS]

^^ loving the data you've shared. Do You plan to offer data you guys logged on the track? Oil temp, IAT, and anything else that doesn't give up any "secrets".

[CSG Mike]

Our s2k hot air intake

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by CajunFRS

^^ loving the data you've shared. Do You plan to offer data you guys logged on the track? Oil temp, IAT, and anything else that doesn't give up any "secrets".

The FRS/BRZ datalogs for the Jackson Racing supercharger kit is not our data to give out, but we will be posting all relevant info from our datalogs once we have our kit on. I have some pretty high expectations, especially since I'll be comparing data to the other FI FRS/BRZs that I drive.

[buditjoenawan]

Mike, you are familiar with Brian Bengali's AP2?

I believe he did a 1:58 with 210whp, and 2800lbs last year around April.

My point is that lap times is more driver, less power. More suspension, less power. More tire, less power. And when it comes to power, mid range torque is far more important than top end power. Surely we can both agree to those points.

- budi

[solidONE]

Kraftwerks kit look a bit cleaner, plus it has CIA. But, Jackson sound like they put in more hours testing the setup.

Side note: Mike is decently quick considering the amount of experience he has compared to some of these other guys. It doesn't hurt that he's basically lived on the so cal tracks the past couple of years. Then again, I've not met any of the other guys. All I see is posted lap times.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by buditjoenawan

Mike, you are familiar with Brian Bengali's AP2?

I believe he did a 1:58 with 210whp, and 2800lbs last year around April.

My point is that lap times is more driver, less power. More suspension, less power. More tire, less power. And when it comes to power, mid range torque is far more important than top end power. Surely we can both agree to those points.

- budi

I sure am. His car has weight reduction and aero, as well as r-comps.

Originally Posted by Brian Bengali

Mike, please organize an S2K vs BRZ/FR-S showdown!! :LOL: That would be really fun

I think this needs to happen


Lets get back on topic.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Uh, I'm not sure you understand how it works.

no i definitely do. he asked how the iats were cooler than stock. when you have a good intercooler and a blow-through maf, this happens.

[utekineir]

So,

What are the advantages of this kit over the kraftworks.

Sell me on it, cause right now I'm leaning kraftworks.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by utekineir

So,

What are the advantages of this kit over the kraftworks.

Sell me on it, cause right now I'm leaning kraftworks.

I'm only here to provide information and my opinions. You can't go wrong with either kit, the C30-94 is a fantastic supercharger.

One of the biggest reasons we went JR instead of KW is because the KW belt system has a belt whine. Being in Southern California, we prefer to keep our street cars low key. However, the noise is a selling point for a lot of people, because they WANT the EVO/STI/Mustang/etc. next to them at the light to know they're supercharged. Again, both systems use the same supercharger.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by jamesm

no i definitely do. he asked how the iats were cooler than stock. when you have a good intercooler and a blow-through maf, this happens.

@OrbitalEllipses: I'm not saying cooler than ambient, only cooler than stock. @jamesm explains it perfectly.

[Stevo22]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Additionally, CSG will be offering an integrated radiator/oil cooler solution in the future.

Will this be a combo unit (i.e. Robispec style) or two separate parts?

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I'm only here to provide information and my opinions. You can't go wrong with either kit, the C30-94 is a fantastic supercharger.

One of the biggest reasons we went JR instead of KW is because the KW belt system has a belt whine. Being in Southern California, we prefer to keep our street cars low key. However, the noise is a selling point for a lot of people, because they WANT the EVO/STI/Mustang/etc. next to them at the light to know they're supercharged. Again, both systems use the same supercharger.

Good to know. Not sure about kraftwerks, but Jackson racing are very good at getting their stuff CARB approved. So that's another plus for the Jackson kit.