Water/methanol or flex fuel

[Dinko]

Im looking at possibly doing one of the two down the road with my turbo setup and im not sure which do. I like the idea of the flex fuel kit so i can use E85 in areas that have it and go back to normal pump gas (91 or 93 depending on where im at) if needed. At the same time, it seems like water/methanol would give me the same boost as E85 (please correct me if im wrong) and i would benefit greatly from the cooling it would provide. Could anyone please provide insight to help me decide?

[pheoxs]

They both have advantages and disadvantages.

W/M
Pros: Only used when in boost typically (depends on setup) so you don't use as much of it. Tuning is typically easier because flex fuel needs to calculate the % of ethanol where as WMI typically has 2 tables, one for normal, one for when you don't have any flow or you run out

Cons: Limited supply, more expensive, and rely on fail safes if you run out and don't notice or pump fails

Flex fuel:
Pros: Larger tank, no real risk of running out, no relying on a fail safe detecting a loss of fuel, cheaper to run

Cons: Risk of ethanol damaging fuel system (fuel filters etc), more expensive to buy the flex fuel sensor and install and such. Tuning may be more difficult if the tuner isn't already doing flex fuel tunes.

If i could run E85 I would, but we don't have it here so instead I have to do WMI

[Dinko]

From my understanding, E85 is actually more expensive then pump gas in the long run due to the more frequent fill ups (which really doesnt bother me). But from the math ive done the water/meth kit would be a tad bit more expensive due to having to buy smaller battery and tray. Where as the flex fuel i would just need a fuel pump I believe. The risk of damaging the fuel system is actually something I wasn't aware about =/ Not sure if this helps any but the two kits that im debating between being FA20's flex fuel and PTuning's W/M.

[Sonolin]

e85 has cooling advantages as well.

What I would do - e85 if its in the area, W/M if not. There's lots of advantages to e85 and I also like support alternative fuels.

[sw20kosh]

E85 flex fuel. W/M is too much hassle.

[Dinko]

By the sounds of things it looks like I will be going Flex Fuel since I will have access to E85. Was originally pretty set on W/M due to not having access to E85, but Ill be moving here soon from VA to CO and it seems E85 is quite common out there. Thank you all for you comments!

[ogrowup]

I started w WM and converted to E85. The car is awesome on e85 but you do lose the same feel when on pump gas. My main concern about E85 is lack of availability, and any long trips mean no 85. With WM, it's always there and I can keep a spare gallon in the trunk. I would get a few thousand miles from a gallon of WM. So why am I staying with E85 when WM is a no brainer?

[Tcoat]

Quite the resurrection there

[vintagemxer]

Weighing in on WMI... E85 not available anywhere near me Snow WMI works off a MAF/MAP sensor. Initial cost is more, but no worries of ever running low. Fuel level sensor installed in 1 1/2 gal. Fuel cell, can go 3 tanks of fuel before needing a fill up Adjusted to come on @ 3500 RPM's, with full blast @ 6500 RPM's. Multiple gains...high octane...cooler intake, & steam cleaning combustion chambers. No worries about boost, changing internal components...Win Win for me !!!

[Bfranklyn86]

Hold on. I did not think WMI and e85 were at all comparable in terms of gains. So WMI would get you 20ish% more power like e85 does.....?!

I thought it was more of a safety thing people did when running a fair amount of boost in a hot climate, to prevent against knock.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by Bfranklyn86

Hold on. I did not think WMI and e85 were at all comparable in terms of gains. So WMI would get you 20ish% more power like e85 does.....?!

I thought it was more of a safety thing people did when running a fair amount of boost in a hot climate, to prevent against knock.

It's actually quite comparable. E85 is ethanol, a type of alcohol (you actually drink it in your beer/wine/spirits, though fuel E85 has toxic additives, do please don't drink that ). Methanol is another type of alcohol, has a high octane rating and a similar cooling effect to E85. The idea behind both E85 and WM is to lower intake charge temps (denser air) and increase combustion stability (octane/anti-knock). So both E85 and methanol absorb heat as the atomized fuel particles turns into vapor, cooling the intake charge. They also both increase overall octane by a good bit, and reduce chances for detonation in the combustion chamber. Water-Meth injection adds water, water doesn't increase your octane but it is really good at absorbing heat as it evaporates - so its main job is to cool the intake. 100% meth injection works, 100% water injection works too, but typically 50/50 water/meth is the best (and safest). So either way, you're cooling & increasing octane - that leads to increased flexibility with timing advance and increased tolerance for boost (leading to more airflow, and more power).

[Yoshoobaroo]

Meth is used on most platforms as a fueling band aid, if the stock fuel system doesn't have the overhead to run E85 (or even high boost on pump gas). This is done on the turbo BMW motors because their fuel systems are very expensive to upgrade. We essentially have 2 fuel systems (direct AND port injection), so we have more than enough overhead to run E85.


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[FRS Justin]

Flex fuel works past 700hp just fine. not sure why anyone would need anything else

[Bfranklyn86]

Originally Posted by FRS Justin

Flex fuel works past 700hp just fine. not sure why anyone would need anything else

I have no access to e85. Just interested to know if WMI can give similar power gains to e85.