FI worth it?

[shiro]

Originally Posted by Gt86_nick

So I've been thinking of putting a greddy turbo in my car somewhere down the road. Not really in any rush but I guess my real question(s) would be…Thanks in advance

1. Is it worth the price for the 93hp gain? Honestly, yes. Why? We know this is a very light car with a great tuned suspension, awesome handling, and down right fun to drive. However, IMO the car is under powered. A 93whp gain is perfect for this car. When you start making above 300whp is where the car probably doesn't become the "best" daily driver, but adding some more torque and power brings out the true spirit. I'd have to say the smaller turbo kits (like the AVO, Greddy, FBM smaller turbos, etc) add the right amount of balance keeping the car's drivability. You don't have to go with 93whp gains since you can ask your tuner what you'd like to hit. 93 is what Greddy's kit deemed suitable and safe for the 91 octane pump without making any changes to the 7psi actuator on the kit. Plus, if you look at all the kits with the big names (Vortec, Greddy, HKS, etc.) they mainly pushed only 7-8psi on pump just because of the high compression ratio (12.5:1) that this car has.

2. Given that it will be my daily driver and I'm not always punching it with some spirited driving every now and then what are the odds of blowing my motor? Subaru claims this motor can handle a lot more than what people are making it out to be. I would have to agree with LJ from Fullblown that it's not the motor that can't handle the power, it's the quality control on the parts on this car. Subaru's new STI version of the BRZ will be coming out with more power but unfortunately no turbo. To my understanding there will be no engine changes.


3. Would anyone recommend any other turbos for better gains on a 91 tune? E85 is pretty hard to come by where I'm from? You can get some awesome gains from any turbo if tuned right. E85 is great for gains and hp but you will need to have it in your area. The downside to E85 is that sometimes the ethanol isn't consistent, especially in the winter where it can be E75. If your car is pushing a large amount of boost the small drop on a high hp tune can make the car more likely to knock. 91 tune is good since almost every gas station will have it. Plus, if you have a gas station with 91 octane with the 10% ethanol added, you are golden. The 10% ethanol with turbo's are easier on the engine since it can lower the chances of premature detonation.

4. Any input from actual greddy turbo owners? Yes, I currently own a Greddy turbo kit. The best gains I've gotten so far is 300.67whp @ 11psi with FullBlown. I am currently selling my kit since I am building my engine and would like to use the money for that. The Greddy Kit I have has an upgraded actuator that allows for up to 18psi. I believe that kit could make 400whp no prob. Plus, I like the short piping design on the intercooler since it's quick with less distance. However, you will need to do modifications to the car that other kits might not do (e.g. you need to cut a small part out of your bumper support for the tall length of the intercooler design and short piping). Overall, great kit but if you want to do big gains later on I would look at the custom kits like FullBlown… Also, FYI, Greddy/Trust Japan teamed up with Garrett USA to make new Greddy Turbo Kits for 2014. New can be read on either of the sites.


5. Additional information: When you start going above 300whp you will need to upgrade more than just adding a Wideband AFR gauge. You will need to consider a clutch, fuel injectors, fuel pump, larger exhaust, etc. The bigger the gains, the more $$ and parts you will need to upgrade to hit your target. The smaller kits make it so you do not need to upgrade any of the stock parts. However, kits like Fullbown will include the upgraded fuel injectors and a fuel pump. Not a clutch though lol.

I'm open to anyone else's two cents and what I've stated above is just what I've learned through owning this car. There is a lot more knowledge and information out there that can greatly benefit you with a little bit of research

Originally Posted by hanabie

will FI void warranty?

Haha, I think I am one of the people that knows best on this topic. Yes it will but keep in mind there are laws that protect the consumer too on modifications added to a car. The dealership will need to prove that the modified part caused the warranty to be voided. They can't just say your add-on caused the issue. It's a lot of work and headaches but possible to win.

Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act"]Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

[swift996]

I actually voted no.

I think it all depends on what your goals are and I feel like if you're asking, the answer is probably no. I'm a pretty firm believer that if a car doesn't come boosted stock it's a lot of work and headache to boost it with aftermarket parts.

Generally the quality of aftermarket parts is less than OEM. Not in all cases but in many it's a small shop with fabricating skills putting together a kit and sourcing affordable parts that give results. That's where the market is, for people who want to see a DYNO on everything. I get it, data is good but again depends on your goals.

I think the supercharger route is nice if you want a little bump but it's probably not worth the cost in my opinion. I love the way my car drives but by the time you add up everything you'll actually want to run it safely, you'd think twice. I'm married to this car and want to keep it for a long time, so I plan to go all out. However, if was a car I might sell down the road and get something else, I would have just kept it N/A.

Turbo kits make great power but there isn't enough confidence in the engine handling power over time. In addition, you'll be reliant on tuners to get it working right. Turbos also have a lot of caring and feeding. This isn't a problem if you don't mind getting your hands dirty and know your way with wrenches. Again just depends on what your goals are.

If you want a more turnkey approach. I think you'll find it in other platforms that you can just throw some bolt ons and a tune to and make great power.

This car is really about the chassis, the handling, and the sports car feel. Adding 100 hp is nice but once you get well above that, it's not going to handle power the way say a Porsche 911 (996 Turbo) or Mitsubishi Evo would.

For most people, cars are great generally adding 50% hp to. I'm not saying you can't have fun and be fast and controllable with more, it just is the law of diminishing returns. If you want that, great. It's a lightweight car and RWD, so it will go with power.

[nix]

The avo kit is so much fun (1 year running it). Go ethanol if you can otherwise you will need lower CR pistons.

[utekineir]

Originally Posted by hanabie

will FI void warranty?

Originally Posted by hanabie

so am I looking another $5k for FI maintenance? lol

Going to go out on a limb here.

But i'm guessing you probably shouldn't go fi.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by calispec

Fair enough. I am not arguing which is better. Just throwing out the options. The innovate kit has enough headroom to max out the stock clutch. So if u want more than that then yes. Don't buy it. And go turbo. Yes. Speaking peak hp you can get around the same numbers by going NA e85 but you won't get near the torque. I don't think e85 is easy to get in Cali.

I like turbos. I have owned them. I like my innovate. It just depends what you are looking for, where you are going to use it, how much power you want, how much u want to spend etc. answer those questions. See what fits and go of it. You will be glad you did!

I am not sure that using the OEM clutch's torque holding ability as you determining point of how much power you will run is the best idea.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

FI will find the weakest link in your engine. The question is, how do WE find it BEFORE it pops if there is in fact a defect or otherwise? Should we be scoping our bores? Obviously a compression and leakdown prior to FI install, but what else?


Where's the resident Engine Nurse Practitioner to step in and tell us what kind of Physical Examination needs to be done prior?

You talkin bout Gem? I am sure he knows exactly what we should all be doing. My statement was more to making sure your car isn't suffereing from any of the various issues that are taking out NA motors like the cam timing sensors or the direct injectors or the coil packs. I am just saying make sure your motor is running properly prior to installing forced induction.

[jamesm]

people's impression of FI is going to be based, above all else, on their experience with the tuning associated with it. if i were still on my 'pro' tune, i'd be telling everyone to stay far far away. having done it myself properly and now having an oem-driving 350+whp 86 with no drama, i'd say go for it. but not unless you have a LOCAL tuner who you trust that has worked on SEVERAL fi 86s prior to yours and figured it out ahead of time, or if your willing to spend the time to do it right on your own. otherwise, it's just not for you. luckily it's pretty damn easy to get right if you have the time.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by jamesm

people's impression of FI is going to be based, above all else, on their experience with the tuning associated with it. if i were still on my 'pro' tune, i'd be telling everyone to stay far far away. having done it myself properly and now having an oem-driving 350+whp 86 with no drama, i'd say go for it. but not unless you have a LOCAL tuner who you trust that has worked on SEVERAL fi 86s prior to yours and figured it out ahead of time, or if your willing to spend the time to do it right on your own. otherwise, it's just not for you. luckily it's pretty damn easy to get right if you have the time.

OR... living close to James is a great option too

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by King Tut

You talkin bout Gem? I am sure he knows exactly what we should all be doing. My statement was more to making sure your car isn't suffereing from any of the various issues that are taking out NA motors like the cam timing sensors or the direct injectors or the coil packs. I am just saying make sure your motor is running properly prior to installing forced induction.

No I am literally asking where's our doc to tell us what to check for...to make sure it IS running properly. AFRs, knock correction, learning, etc can all be checked, but there are other deeper things that should be known to be okay first, too yeah?

[cdrazic93]

Honestly, when I go FI, I'm doing it right the first time. I figure a good idea would be to keep the motor in, then once I have the required parts, and I mean ALL of them, pull the motor, install a built short block, then tune (most likely everything from FBM). God the more I talk the more I spend money lol

[calispec]

Originally Posted by King Tut

I am not sure that using the OEM clutch's torque holding ability as you determining point of how much power you will run is the best idea.

Is the OEM clutch not the next significant investment needed to achieve higher HP goals? I think a lot of people here are straying away from what the OP asked and maybe what he wants. An easy way to add 100 hp in a SAFE way. If that's all you are looking for then why buy a new clutch which might change drivability. Why build up the bottom end? You can easily and safely run the motor and drivetrain at 250hp for the life of the car with a good tune and it will be a blast to DD.

The torque holding of the OEM clutch is a mechanical boundary from easy to not so easy. That's why I mentioned it.

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by calispec

Is the OEM clutch not the next significant investment needed to achieve higher HP goals? Why build up the bottom end? You can easily and safely run the motor and drivetrain at 250hp for the life of the car with a good tune and it will be a blast DD

I would feel safer knowing I have a motor built for higher hp purposes than a motor designed for only 200 hp. Rather I'd be driving a 350 whp rated motor using only 250-270 whp out of that. If you boost a motor that is not boosted already, no matter the PSI you push, even if it's 1 lb. it still reduces the engines life span.

http://www.xcceleration.com/cr-boost%20101.htm

[jamesm]

the fa20 is incredibly forgiving in my experience. it's not a ticking time bomb, even boosted. my pro tune had me running 13.5:1 afr at 10psi, no harm no foul. @nelsmar drove at full boost in closed loop for a good while lol.

that's not to say it doesn't matter because it does, just that it's not like the thing is sitting there looking for an excuse to blow up.

[Cal3000]

250whp is a lot for this car. Believe me. Power to weight makes it quicker than a 370z. A lot of people have 300whp easily. With that, you are quicker than an e92 M3.