A discussion on improving ride quality

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

You're the first person I've seen say it that way. Why? I thought there was only a little wiggle room until the stock struts started blowing with stiffer springs. I also don't see how the spring softness is an issue. Well, I would like stiffer springs because I bottom out here and there, but these are corners where most stock cars would bottom out.

Not attacking or saying you're wrong. Just wanna know your answers.

I've been driving all summer on Swift sport springs, on some of the worst roads imaginable (Toronto roads, during construction season... I should film my drive one day) and my struts are still in great shape.

I also have 76k km's total on my car, with at least 16k km's with the springs installed.

On big bumps the ride is definitely more firm, but over smaller bumps it feels better than stock. There's no bounce, and any bump that it bottoms out over it did so with the stock springs as well.

Lowering springs get a bad reputation because people will put them on shocks that are 10+ years old with 150k km's+ and SLAM the cars. Too low (more bottoming) is a bigger concern than a higher spring rate in terms of wearing out a shock. Most shock manufacturers suggest a replacement interval of about 80-100k km's as well, so if it's at almost double that no wonder they blew when subjected to more stress.

I'll probably get next summer out of my springs/struts, then they'll be toast, but they'll be over 100k km's on them by that point, with lots of track and autox use.

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by wparsons

I'll probably get next summer out of my springs/struts, then they'll be toast, but they'll be over 100k km's on them by that point, with lots of track and autox use.

Time for a Bilstein/RCE Tarmac setup!

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Time for a Bilstein/RCE Tarmac setup!

Nope, RCE T2's or comparable will be next up.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

You're the first person I've seen say it that way. Why? I thought there was only a little wiggle room until the stock struts started blowing with stiffer springs. I also don't see how the spring softness is an issue. Well, I would like stiffer springs because I bottom out here and there, but these are corners where most stock cars would bottom out.

Not attacking or saying you're wrong. Just wanna know your answers.

The stock shocks are a little overdamped, especially up front. This is why many report a slightly smoother ride with firmer springs (and ONLY a mild drop) on small to medium sized bumps. You'll still feel the big stuff though, and it might be a tiny bit harsher.

- Andy

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

The stock shocks are a little overdamped, especially up front.

@Ubersuber, you see that? Both ends are overdamped, despite your claims the rear is drastically under damped.

[RYU]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

At a beginner level, the main problem with our suspension is that the springs are too soft for the struts, so they're being overpowered by them. RCE, Swift, Hotchkis, etc... all make springs that are a much better match for the OEM strut and work to solve a lot of the issues we have from the factory. People report a much smoother ride with just upgraded springs, because now the spring and strut are working together instead of fighting each other.

Be careful with over simplifying and generalizing. My first instinct was to say you were incorrect. The ride was not better and was certainly worse over big bumps. Then I saw RCE clarified the point below.

The problem with the 86 is the very short rear suspension travel. You need sophisticated damping to even make it "comfortable". What is a "comfortable ride" is extremely subjective though.

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

The stock shocks are a little overdamped, especially up front. This is why many report a slightly smoother ride with firmer springs (and ONLY a mild drop) on small to medium sized bumps. You'll still feel the big stuff though, and it might be a tiny bit harsher.

- Andy

[Trettiosjuan]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

The stock shocks are a little overdamped, especially up front. This is why many report a slightly smoother ride with firmer springs (and ONLY a mild drop) on small to medium sized bumps. You'll still feel the big stuff though, and it might be a tiny bit harsher.

- Andy

This, there is a difference between small and large bumps...

Which makes me think, does anybody offer only slightly harder springs that do NOT lower the car? Even make it a bit higher? That would suit a bad road set-up and also delay striking the bump stops on the worst roads (driven fast)...

[wparsons]

Hitting the bump stops isn't a bad thing, they're designed as part of the spring/shock package and are VERY progressive. You'll hit them at like 5mm of bump travel, and not even notice it.

Now, more travel would give more room before a hard bottoming, but I imagine that nasty bumps would still fully bottom out unless you added lots more travel.

[Trettiosjuan]

In a way the car is hybrid steel elastomer progressive sprung... So yes more correctly: delaying bottoming out, a natural result of higher rates on the same travel.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Trettiosjuan

This, there is a difference between small and large bumps...

Which makes me think, does anybody offer only slightly harder springs that do NOT lower the car? Even make it a bit higher? That would suit a bad road set-up and also delay striking the bump stops on the worst roads (driven fast)...

That's where damper curves, and custom valving dampers to better match the spring and conditions comes in.... which is what CSG is still trying to perfect with CSG-Spec SRCs. It's been 2 years and we're still not completely happy. We're still going at it...

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by Trettiosjuan

hybrid steel elastomer progressive sprung...

Gesundheit.

[Turdinator]

Could you not get some Bilstien B6 shocks custom valved for the stock springs to improve the comfort? To me it seems like you won't improve comfort without custom valving as almost everything on the market (at least that i have seen) is designed for performance driving rather than passenger comfort. I would also imagine it would take a few tries to get it where you want.

[Ubersuber]

Originally Posted by wparsons

@Ubersuber, you see that? Both ends are overdamped, despite your claims the rear is drastically under damped.

Depends what you mean, dampers have two separate functions.

Four if you count two rebound and two jounce.

The Bilsteins control the rebound much better than the stock dampers and are more forgiving in jounce.

The proof is in the performance, the stock dampers suck and the Bilsteins are just about perfect with stock springs and bars.

Don't think the rear bump stops are correct either way, they are way too stiff way too early in the compression. The rear bump stops are much stiffer than the fronts and only 1/8 inch shorter.

[Ubersuber]

Originally Posted by Turdinator

Could you not get some Bilstien B6 shocks custom valved for the stock springs to improve the comfort? To me it seems like you won't improve comfort without custom valving as almost everything on the market (at least that i have seen) is designed for performance driving rather than passenger comfort. I would also imagine it would take a few tries to get it where you want.

The standard B6 is just fine for the stock springs. Ride is much improved and wheel control is far superior, best of both worlds. I'm betting the 2015 BRZ will have dampers much more like the B6 than the previous scruffy dampers they originally fitted. Anyone driven a 2015 and compared it to a Bilstein B6 equipped car?