First test drive. Feeling disappointed.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by imprezive

Cliff notes: How much can you feel the difference after adding a header/tune compared to stock? I know it is hard to describe, but please do your best.


Long version: When I was 17-23, I had some fun cars. Modded, autoXed, etc. For the last 10 years I've been driving a Toyota Corolla, because it just made sense economically and I had a lot of other things keeping me busy in my life. I've had the itch for a while to get a new car. I've been lurking here for about 3 months and reading as much as I can. I know the car is "under-powered". I know about the torque dip. That didn't really concern me. I plan on putting about 10k worth of mods into the car, but would like to keep it NA and very daily driver friendly. (I drive about 25k miles every year).

I've been avoiding test-driving the BRZ because I still want to wait a few more months and didn't want to get excited and jump the gun. I had a few hours to kill the other day, so I went to a dealership and drove one...

While it was more comfortable than I expected, I was really surprised how unimpressed I was with the "punch" (torque) of the motor. My 5-spd Corolla feels nearly as powerful. I had kinda expected that after driving my Corolla for so long anything would be a big step up.

I'm not looking for a rocket-ship, but just want to have an idea of the difference the standard header/tune bolt ons will make. Particularly regarding the "punch"/torque "feel" of the engine. I've looked at all the dyno charts, but I'm wanting to hear personal experiences.

Thanks!

That's because displacement = torque, and torque is mainly what you feel.

1.8L vs 2.0L, is not a big difference.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by imprezive

I'm actually at a Toyota dealership right now. The wouldn't let me drive the TRD.

But I drove a base 86 AT as well as the Camry XSE V6. The Camry was exactly as expected...which was good because I had high expectations. Plenty of torque, but trans felt very "toned down".

I was really surprised by the 86 AT. The engine felt much better than the BRZ I drove. I wonder if they had put 87 octane in the BRZ. For a torque converter AT, it was fantastic. No forced upshifts and pretty darn quick throttle blip.

Cloths seats on the 86 we're not as nice as the BRZ, if my memory isn't playing tricks on me.

The main difference between the MT and AT is the ability to launch resulting in a full second faster 0-60mph, but from a roll they are almost identical. Also the MT has slightly more aggressive shorter and closer gearing but that doesn't really make much of a difference until 92MPH+ when AT has to shift into 4th. But the pros of AT are better gas mileage (largely from extra overdrive gear in 6th), ease and convenience, and AT actually shifts a little faster then most people can manually shift.

the BRZ is a little more "luxurious" then the 86, but the 86 is a bit cheaper. base 86 is a good option to get into the car for cheap and then have extra cash to modify to your liking.

[imprezive]

Originally Posted by GrantedTaken

Most car guys have no idea how to manage a gearbox. Sorry

I believe I understand what you are insinuating. I disagree and can assure you it is not true in my case

It's been years since I've frequented any car forums. I can see things haven't changed much

[Lakitu]

My car starts to get fun around 4th gear heading upwards 50+ mph. Anything below that, its a little bit of a drag, especially with automatic vans and beetles tailgating you as you feverishly try to catch some distance without coming off as a massive asshole and go revving much higher than 3.5k rpms, especially if your car is loud then in which case you are immediately an asshole even at 3k rpms. I love this car though, what can I say.

Header, tune, and tires is all the car really needs at the basic level of improvement.
sub-member, trans mount, steering bushings, engine mounts after that for even more driving pleasure.

[SuperTom]

Originally Posted by Lakitu

My car starts to get fun around 4th gear heading upwards 50+ mph. Anything below that, its a little bit of a drag, especially with automatic vans and beetles tailgating you as you feverishly try to catch some distance without coming off as a massive asshole and go revving much higher than 3.5k rpms, especially if your car is loud then in which case you are immediately an asshole even at 3k rpms. I love this car though, what can I say.

Header, tune, and tires is all the car really needs at the basic level of improvement.
sub-member, trans mount, steering bushings, engine mounts after that for even more driving pleasure.

That's exactly how I feel. With exhaust its loud leaving off the line at red light and the car is barely moving. Im not trying to race but Im sure people think I am. But in mid rpms in 3rd gear getting on the highway it really pulls.

[Lakitu]

Originally Posted by SuperTom

That's exactly how I feel. With exhaust its loud leaving off the line at red light and the car is barely moving. Im not trying to race but Im sure people think I am. But in mid rpms in 3rd gear getting on the highway it really pulls.

Yep. I have seen people take off slowly beside me, then when they hear my car hit 4k rpms, they immediately gun it. Like, wtf lol.

People have too much to prove. While I'm literally just trying to get to work...

[churchx]

Lakitu: then those people should race for same reason every econobox with variator gearbox and small displacement engine. Constant high rpm whine during most of normal driving whine is distinctive "feature" of such

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by imprezive

I'm actually at a Toyota dealership right now. The wouldn't let me drive the TRD.

But I drove a base 86 AT as well as the Camry XSE V6. The Camry was exactly as expected...which was good because I had high expectations. Plenty of torque, but trans felt very "toned down".

I was really surprised by the 86 AT. The engine felt much better than the BRZ I drove. I wonder if they had put 87 octane in the BRZ. For a torque converter AT, it was fantastic. No forced upshifts and pretty darn quick throttle blip.

Cloths seats on the 86 we're not as nice as the BRZ, if my memory isn't playing tricks on me.

They also had a better test drive route that allowed me to play with the handling in the performance a little bit more, so that helped.

What year BRZ did you test?
They changed the gearing in the MT cars in 2017+
AT cars kept the same gearing from the beginning.

Oh and BRZ is definitely "nicer" than a base 86, but that gap is narrowed to nearly nothing with an 86 GT trim (and yes the leather/alcantara seats are better than the cloth seats.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

What year BRZ did you test?

They changed the gearing in the MT cars in 2017+

AT cars kept the same gearing from the beginning.



Oh and BRZ is definitely "nicer" than a base 86, but that gap is narrowed to nearly nothing with an 86 GT trim (and yes the leather/alcantara seats are better than the cloth seats.

I consider my 2013 base FR-S a special edition lightweight model

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[imprezive]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

What year BRZ did you test?
They changed the gearing in the MT cars in 2017+
AT cars kept the same gearing from the beginning.

Oh and BRZ is definitely "nicer" than a base 86, but that gap is narrowed to nearly nothing with an 86 GT trim (and yes the leather/alcantara seats are better than the cloth seats.

2019. Something was def not 100% right with the BRZ I drove. It felt like a dog. For the 2nd test drive I went straight from a 300HP Camry to the 86 and 86 still felt "peppy".

[Lantanafrs2]

That's interesting. I know that before I started running e85 my car was very temp/fuel sensitive and would be acceptable some days and vanagon like on others.

[falcon_wizard]

Originally Posted by imprezive

2019. Something was def not 100% right with the BRZ I drove. It felt like a dog. For the 2nd test drive I went straight from a 300HP Camry to the 86 and 86 still felt "peppy".

That indeed is bizarre... the AT I am told is a bit faster, but it should not be so different... maybe the brz had 91 octane and the 86 had 93+... When tuning mine, the 94 octane tune was able to gain 15%performance increase over the 91 tune. This was with FI, but still shows how better quality fuel does make a difference. When I was stock, I remembered 94 would give me better pedal feel as well. Whenever I would use 91 for a bit, the car would not respond as well.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

When i initially was looking at headers i narrowed it down to JDL Ptuning and Ace, before settling on Ace.



That definitely doesn't help, that's why i am curious how his hold up.

Been thinking about getting 245 pilot sports, rains way too often to be running summer tires though.

I live in Florida and have never had a problem with UHP tires in the rain. I would slit my wrists before I road on all season tires.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

That's interesting. I know that before I started running e85 my car was very temp/fuel sensitive and would be acceptable some days and vanagon like on others.

Same experience here. Every time I cranked the car it was like rolling the dice to she what personality it would have that day. With E85 the experience is extremely consistent and seems way more heat resistant. On very hot days the car doesn’t feel like a pig with E85.