Pop goes the BRZ. Advice please. UPDATE

[ybotspawn]

Originally Posted by King Tut

The oil could be as simple as the Robispec oil cooler failing or a line coming loose. The result was the car ran low on oil till eventually damage occurred. Might have nothing to do with the forced induction or the tune.

Does the robispec route oil lines on the passenger side? OP said his oil came from the passenger side

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by ybotspawn

Does the robispec route oil lines on the passenger side? OP said his oil came from the passenger side

Once oil is down there it could have gone anywhere. Ask me how I know.

[ybotspawn]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Once oil is down there it could have gone anywhere. Ask me how I know.

LOL How do you know.

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by TurboBRZ

The problem I see here Zach is that your tune seems to be a "one size fits all" approach, rather than tuning each car independently on a dyno which is how it should be done on EVERY car. When you treat every car as the same and give them all the same "out of the box tune", you're bound to have a few outlying cars that don't fit your algorithm. Thus why my car is being tuned independently by a Subaru master tuner on a dyno via a 6-8 hour long session. There aint no "one size fits all" approach for my ride - I wouldn't take the chance.

Draco is in Ohio and Ryan86 is in South Africa, so I highly doubt that you tuned either of their cars on a dyno in person from California. Likewise Draco doesn't have the knowledge to read his own afr maps, he sent it to your company for review which means he has to take your word for it rather than being able to tell for himself if he was too rich or too lean. He also doesn't appear to have the knowledge to tell what went wrong with his car without consulting a mechanic, whereas I can pretty much rebuild this car in my sleep. It's easy to tell someone who doesn't know much about cars "nope it all looks good to me" as they're none the wiser. So Draco I'd love to see those records you said you sent in for review to Delicious - there are plenty of knowledgeable people on here who could tell you if the tune was the root of your problem. After all - the boost you were running is MORE than safe on this engine.





Don't forget that superchargers rob power from the engine to make power... so the same boost you use on a turbo car is not going to give you as much power with a supercharger. Likewise 12psi on a turbo with a 50 A/R vs a turbo with a 70 A/R is going to make a huge difference. We have no idea what the equivalent A/R is for his supercharger since it's not exactly built like a turbo.



And what do you consider "reasonable" to fix the motor when you spent $5k on a supercharger kit? Forged pistons - $650 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/261384876871...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT), new rods - $1500 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/391067640449...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)... You could completely rebuild the motor with new internals that can handle 500+ WHP daily for less than you spent on your supercharger. Seems reasonable enough to me.

A sample size of two doesn't prove shit...Furthermore, no amount of added pressure/forced air into this engine can be deemed "safe". Plenty of people have grenaded their engines for various reasons. Any time you boost an engine that isn't built for boost you're rolling the dice, even more so when that engine has ridiculously high compression.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by ybotspawn

LOL How do you know.

My oil cooler leaked of course, haha. It got all over all the under panels. I also had an issue at the track this weekend where my catch can overflowed multiple times and got oil everywhere as well. Not looking forward to cleaning that up.

[xkalelx]

Wow, so much speculation and attacks in here. Keep calm and wait until further information comes in.

OP: It doesn't take a master mechanic to determine if you blew out a rocker cover, leaking from the cam plate, or popped a line from the oil cooler. Grab a flashlight and throw this thread an update!

Cheers.

[xxscaxx]

Originally Posted by TurboBRZ

The problem I see here Zach is that your tune seems to be a "one size fits all" approach, rather than tuning each car independently on a dyno which is how it should be done on EVERY car. When you treat every car as the same and give them all the same "out of the box tune", you're bound to have a few outlying cars that don't fit your algorithm. Thus why my car is being tuned independently by a Subaru master tuner on a dyno via a 6-8 hour long session. There aint no "one size fits all" approach for my ride - I wouldn't take the chance.

No eTune will ever compare to an actual dyno tune. That being said, @DeliciousTuning does not just throw a cookie cutter tune to every single person and send them on their way. They may send you a "public release" version but once you send in data logs if there are any issues they adjust as needed. I know this because I have done this plenty of times with Bill already.

I have gone through 4 maps already on my recently JDL turbo'd BRZ. They wouldn't be in business if they were just throwing maps to people without any adjustment. Sure they aren't adjusting for the max amount of power but there tune is meant to deliver as much power efficiently without having to go to a dyno that is safe for your car.

I have seen my fair share of motors blow up with dyno tunes as well...there are so many factors, especially this car that was never meant to see FI in the first place.

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by WHITE

I'm going to go out on a limb here and venture my guess to be that you ate a rocker and shot it out of the valve cover. Just a guess. I'm interested to see what the actual verdict is.

+1

[Draco-REX]

Finally at home with a real keyboard.

Originally Posted by mav1178

Again I think you are going about this the wrong way. From the looks of this, you have not figured out how much you are willing to spend to fix the problem and just want to resolve this by throwing money at it.

If you have a fixed budget or limited financial resources, why the rush to cast a wide net when you can accomplish the same when a preliminary diagnosis is returned?

If you want to learn all there is to know about an engine, specifically this engine in your car, that's fine. But it's counter-productive to figure out a solution when you don't even know a cause.

This is akin to you having a headache and you're trying to figure out what is wrong with your body and worrying about everything from a brain tumor to just a lack of sleep to something unknown, and you haven't even set foot in the doctor's office yet.

Really, don't worry about solutions until you know what the cause is. Or spend your next few days fretting about it. up to you.

-alex

I'm not looking for THE solution, I'm looking for solutionS. I believe it's best to approach a problem with as much info on-hand as possible. Depending on what the verdict is, I'll be better informed on what my choices are.

Doing nothing and waiting would make me fret more. I'd rather be productive and arm myself with knowledge.

Originally Posted by TurboBRZ

And what do you consider "reasonable" to fix the motor when you spent $5k on a supercharger kit? Forged pistons - $650 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/261384876871...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT), new rods - $1500 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/391067640449...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)... You could completely rebuild the motor with new internals that can handle 500+ WHP daily for less than you spent on your supercharger. Seems reasonable enough to me.

FYI, those pistons you linked are 10:1 compression, not 12.5:1. I'm at max volume with the Sprintex 210, I wouldn't be able to make up for the lack of compression. So if I want to maintain what I had, according to what I've learned int his thread and seen online, I'll have to have the pistons made to order, so it'll be closer to $1000+. That said, if I'm only in for internals, that is acceptable.

However, if the block is cracked/unsalvageable, that would mean an engine AND internals. That's right around my pain point if I get a used engine, well beyond it if I go new. At that point, I would consider leaving the engine N/A and looking at a different platform.

There's also the potential for fuel system upgrades and a custom tune to consider as well. If I'm staying F/I, I'm going to make it as bulletproof as I can.

Originally Posted by King Tut

The oil could be as simple as the Robispec oil cooler failing or a line coming loose. The result was the car ran low on oil till eventually damage occurred. Might have nothing to do with the forced induction or the tune.

That was my first thought when I saw the oil (I hadn't heard the ticking yet), but the oil cooler lines looked dry. I'll get a better look at the lower line when I get under there.

Originally Posted by xkalelx

Wow, so much speculation and attacks in here. Keep calm and wait until further information comes in.

OP: It doesn't take a master mechanic to determine if you blew out a rocker cover, leaking from the cam plate, or popped a line from the oil cooler. Grab a flashlight and throw this thread an update!

Cheers.

Cam plate looks dry. I'll get under the car either tomorrow or Thursday, depending on weather and weather-related plans. I think I'll pull the header too. I have a crazy idea and want to rule it out. Pictures will be forthcoming.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by TurboBRZ

The problem I see here Zach is that your tune seems to be a "one size fits all" approach, rather than tuning each car independently on a dyno which is how it should be done on EVERY car. When you treat every car as the same and give them all the same "out of the box tune", you're bound to have a few outlying cars that don't fit your algorithm. Thus why my car is being tuned independently by a Subaru master tuner on a dyno via a 6-8 hour long session. There aint no "one size fits all" approach for my ride - I wouldn't take the chance.

Ummmm you are aware that that is EXACTLY what the OEMs do, right?


Tuning on the ragged edge and trying to get the absolute most out of the engine is great for dyno sheets, but bad for durability, reliability, and frankly for business. This is why it's best to ignore "hero" dyno sheets and get dynos from cars that are actually driven hard.

[Boofneenee]

I bet you its the cam seal plate as mentioned above. In the section on this forum about recalls, their is a way to find out. Numbers listed on your cars vin will tell you which production number you own. If the numbers listed are before the recall (which was corrected later) your car may have the issue . if so, you may be covered under your warranty if you can prove its not the result of your Super charger. Gl keep us posted

[Draco-REX]

The guys at the shop let me put it on an empty lift so I could get a look under the engine. ..so much oil.. It's going to suck to clean.

Anyways, got the skid plate off and I didn't have to pull the header. SO FAR, before the engine's been pulled, the winner is.....



*drumroll*

Originally Posted by WHITE

I'm going to go out on a limb here and venture my guess to be that you ate a rocker and shot it out of the valve cover. Just a guess. I'm interested to see what the actual verdict is.

Nailed it.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess oil starvation. The course at the event was very right-turn heavy, including a banked turn. With no downforce or slicks I didn't think I'd have to worry about this, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Hopefully someone's figured out a solution to this, or I'm just not going to be able to run there again.

So, if I'm somewhat lucky, I just need a head and I'm back and running. When the engine comes out, I'll know for sure. But for now I don't think I'll be needing the replacement engines I've sourced.

[WHITE]

@Draco-REX oil starvation might not have been the culprit. there's an, as of right now, uncommon factory defect of the "pin" that holds the rocker arm failing and backing out of the rocker arm. This happened to element tuning and they now offer a fix for it with their headwork.


Hopefully that's all your problem is, should be an easy fix for you if that's all it is. Keep us posted as you rip into it some more.

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by WHITE

@Draco-REX oil starvation might not have been the culprit. there's an, as of right now, uncommon factory defect of the "pin" that holds the rocker arm failing and backing out of the rocker arm. This happened to element tuning and they now offer a fix for it with their headwork.


Hopefully that's all your problem is, should be an easy fix for you if that's all it is. Keep us posted as you rip into it some more.

Really now? That's even better news. I haven't heard anything about this, only that there were starvation issues with slicks and downforce. I thought the banked turn might have recreated the same conditions.

Man, I hope that's it. *fingers crossed*