Drive TV: Should I Buy A Subaru BRZ or a BMW E46? ROAD TESTAMENT

[kanundrum]

I like Mike Spinelli i think he is a good car guy along with Matt Farah. Everyone on the drive network is actually pretty good my fav is probably alex roy he is just hilarious (along with chris harris)

[OjiGeorge]

My vote goes to Porsche Cayman!!

[reni]

hey look, these guys made a music video
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHBODvCQNls"]Plaid Rap - YouTube[/ame]

Seriously though, most of the suggestions were dumb. Look up the maintenance costs for any M car, the TCO would easily surpass the 86 after a few years. Or $20k for a 20 year old MR2? It will depreciate just as fast if you actually take it out of the garage and drive it.

[reni]

hey look, these guys made a music video
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHBODvCQNls"]Plaid Rap - YouTube[/ame]

Seriously though, most of the suggestions were dumb. Look up the maintenance costs for any M car, the TCO would easily surpass the 86 after a few years. Or $20k for a 20 year old MR2? It will depreciate just as fast if you actually take it out of the garage and drive it.

[AsianStyle]

Before I bought my FRS I was looking at several new and upcoming BMWs. I think the general consensus for most BMW buyers are don't own the car after warranty. I would never think of buying a used BMW out of warranty, when the new ones have free maintenance. I think the peace of mind of knowing you will have a usable car daily is worth it. Be it via a free loaner or just issue free new vehicle.

The other cars they mentioned would definitely be a better choice than the twins, if the car was going to be a 2nd car/track toy. However, if you need it as a daily none of them make as much sense as the twins. As a daily the mix of back seats, reliability and torque available at low rpm range make it the most sensible choice. I think they should have stated if the comparison was for a daily or a track car.

[Turbowned]

Drove all those cars except for the M3 and 964, annnnd still going for the BRZ

The cost of upkeep like they mentioned is exactly why I shied away from the aging semi-exotic sports cars.
Porsche 964? I don't have 25k cash or I'd consider it.
Porsche Cayman? Don't feel like pulling the motor to replace the IMS bearing right off the bat.
M3? Don't feel like paying $1000 for a set of tires. Gas mileage is mediocre. Bring Money With you for maintenance.
S2000? Don't like convertibles and the gas mileage isn't great.
SW20 MR2? Already owned one, and already have another MR2 in the garage.
Lotus Elise? Great track car, horrible every day car. Feels very cheap and not much faster than the alternatives.

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by AsianStyle

Before I bought my FRS I was looking at several new and upcoming BMWs. I think the general consensus for most BMW buyers are don't own the car after warranty. I would never think of buying a used BMW out of warranty, when the new ones have free maintenance. I think the peace of mind of knowing you will have a usable car daily is worth it. Be it via a free loaner or just issue free new vehicle.

I agree that the Bimmers are expensive to maintain, especially if you go to the BMW Service Department, but I think a lot of that is overblown. I know several people that DD them out of warranty and rarely have issues at all. The ones I have seen crop up tend to be on the modified vehicles. If people were willing to DIY costs would be much lower, but for those that can afford a lifetime of car payments, leasing and turning it in when that's over and picking a new one off the lot is more convenient, I suppose.

[djdnz]

Snooooooooooze

[AsianStyle]

Originally Posted by n2oinferno

I agree that the Bimmers are expensive to maintain, especially if you go to the BMW Service Department, but I think a lot of that is overblown. I know several people that DD them out of warranty and rarely have issues at all. The ones I have seen crop up tend to be on the modified vehicles. If people were willing to DIY costs would be much lower, but for those that can afford a lifetime of car payments, leasing and turning it in when that's over and picking a new one off the lot is more convenient, I suppose.

I agree if you are willing to DIY, then it is definitely manageable out of warranty. However, I don't think most people are willing or want to do that and parts are not cheap. Also, I don't know about others but I usually switch out vehicles around 100k miles due to boredom or not wanting to pay for maintenance out of pocket that could have gone towards a new car. Again I'm talking about a daily vehicle that will be constantly accruing miles.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

Drove all those cars except for the M3 and 964, annnnd still going for the BRZ

The cost of upkeep like they mentioned is exactly why I shied away from the aging semi-exotic sports cars.
Porsche 964? I don't have 25k cash or I'd consider it.
Porsche Cayman? Don't feel like pulling the motor to replace the IMS bearing right off the bat.
M3? Don't feel like paying $1000 for a set of tires. Gas mileage is mediocre. Bring Money With you for maintenance.
S2000? Don't like convertibles and the gas mileage isn't great.
SW20 MR2? Already owned one, and already have another MR2 in the garage.
Lotus Elise? Great track car, horrible every day car. Feels very cheap and not much faster than the alternatives.

Yeah I had a lot of the same thoughts. The German brands are nice, but expensive to maintain and track, and God help you if something major breaks out of warranty. They're also overpriced if you don't care about the luxury aspect (which I don't at this point in my life). The S2000 and Miata might have been viable options if they were coupes, but not available. I hadn't given much thought to the MR2, but it's probably a bit older than I would consider if buying used.

The FR-S just fits the bill really nicely. Another 30 NA hp would have been great, but otherwise no real complaints.

[pyro530]

They also say something about an E36 M3 vs. BRZ. Well, I bought both, FR-S in my case.

I disagree 100% about BMW maintenance costs being high. With the fact that the E36 is so popular for racing there are tons of aftermarket parts being made for the car still, often with better quality and engineering at a better price vs OEM. Also, because the E36 M3 (and E46 M3) shares a lot of common parts with the standard cars, junk yards can be (and are) a gold mine of parts.
With web sites like Pelican Parts, Bavarian Autosport, ECS Tuning and Turner Motorsport the cars can be very inexpensive (cheap even) to maintain.

I also expect that less then half the people on this forum would actually take the car to the dealer service department, I personally do all my wrenching myself when I can.

For the comments about the "Luxury" factor. There isn't much to be had in my M3, which is just how I want it. Manual Vader seats, turn knob (non automatic) climate control, the only upgrade my car has is the sunroof which I could do without and the leather seats. At 3200lbs it's not much heavier that my FR-S, but makes more power. The S50 motor is also much easier to get power out of with simple bolt-on mod's.

[swift996]

Let me chime in here. The M3 is a ton of fun, great power and a very well balanced car. The reason I picked up a BRZ is it's 650 lbs lighter. The steering is night and day difference as far as being direct. I like driving the BRZ more than the M3 (e46). I just want the BRZ to have about the same speed, which will happen soon. The M3 is a great value though, no doubt about it.

[Fbaum]

Originally Posted by organik

There are so many pros and cons to consider, and I've looked at them all.
...
The hardest pill to swallow is that buying a new car is the worst dollar investment you can make.

I have to agree with you, Organik. It just sucks buying a new car when it is going to depreciate to only 37% of it's purchase price in just five years.

I've never owned a RWD sports car, and I am pining for one of the twins. But it's hard to justify a losing investment. At this point in my life, I have the cash to buy a ~$26k car, but not the cash to just throw away that money.

I might try to pick up an FR-S with 8-10k miles on it this summer if I can find someone willing to part with one for a fair price.

[Fbaum]

oh and the "37% of it's purchase price in just five years" may not apply to the FR-S/BRZ, I realize; it's just the national average listed on edmunds.com.

Are there any threads about potential appreciation of the BRZ in the coming decades? The production numbers are so low...