|
Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing Relating to suspension, chassis, and brakes. Sponsored by 949 Racing. |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
06-14-2019, 04:27 AM | #1 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Drives: Asphalt '16 FRS
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 32
Thanks: 5
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Heavy Steering After Alignment / Specs?
After an alignment my steering seems to have gotten quite awkwardly heavier, requiring more effort to turn corners or even at an intersection. I have to pull in the direction I want where it feels less precise/ more dull, almost needing a second hand for the last portion of the turn. The previous owner installed LCA's and camber bolts, and the reason I got an alignment in the first place was because the camber bolt became loose and was causing a clunking when turning.
I majority DD with slight canyon runs, so while I'm not nitpicky about minuscule performance changes, cornering does seem to be less precise. I'm moreso concerned that steering became significantly more difficult after tightening the camber bolt and alignment, and was wondering if I have unideal specs causing this. Or if I was just used to whatever the previous owner's specs were and that this is how the car naturally should feel. It seems the consensus is more camber up front than in back. I should've done my research beforehand but instead decided to trust a reputable shop, which decided to give me 0 camber and toe up front, -2 camber rear and .15 toe. What do you guys think, is this the cause? I know there is a wealth of alignment recommendations here, but feel free to suggest anything given my situation. Here's my spec sheet, note that the front camber isn't accurate as I tightened the camber bolt before bringing it in. Don't know what it was originally at. |
06-14-2019, 04:35 AM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Drives: 2002 VX Commodore SS LS1 Auto
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,203
Thanks: 500
Thanked 2,185 Times in 1,111 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Alignment and feel is very personal.
In saying that mine is -2.5° on the front with 0 toe, -2.0° rear with 0 toe. Hankook RS4, 215/45 17, handles well, tyre wear is even. Toe settings is where you get turn in or stablilty, but the more toe the more wear. How much is the front tyre pushing up on the sidewall with 0 camber? Is it understeering more? Tyre pressure? Tyres?
__________________
Disclaimer: This post represents the official views of the voices in my head at the time of posting.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133311 I'm only here for the biscuits |
06-14-2019, 04:41 AM | #3 | |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Drives: Asphalt '16 FRS
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 32
Thanks: 5
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Sorry I don't know enough to answer what exactly is happening about the sidewall, which is why i'm seeking advice. I want to say yes it is understeering more, but I'm no track expert. It simply can be just the discomfort of requiring more steering effort I'm feeling. |
|
06-14-2019, 04:47 AM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Drives: 2014 GT86
Location: Latvia, Riga
Posts: 4,333
Thanks: 696
Thanked 2,085 Times in 1,436 Posts
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
|
0 camber front, -2 rear? Looks like even more understeery then stock. And as to me front pushing too much was one of biggest dislikes, it's front camber that i'd wish to up, not rear one.
As for some extra stability in rear, better get that with slight toe-in (which is there even in stock alignment, and is common for RWD cars), eg. +0.1 to +0.2 degrees total rear toe-in. Yes, toe extra wears tires most, but slight toe in rear imho is beneficial and at slight values extra wear is not that much to care. Negative camber is more to get tire contact patch even to compensate for tire sidewall flex during higher speed/side-Gs cornering. Turning up rear negative camber will add a bit grip for fast corners .. but front that stayed at stock alignment 0 camber will plow same as before, so what the use in extra rear camber, if you won't use it due car understeering. Many for twins up front camber, to even a bit more then rear. For only daily driven twin i'd probably go for -1.5dg front camber, and leave -1 (or was it -1.2?) rear camber as stock. More track oriented would be increasing overall negative camber, but still - more camber at front, as outer front tire gets most loaded. Eg. for track -3.2F, -2.5R, for something interim, -2.5F, -2R. That won't answer to OP's heavier steering issue though. Often reason for it might be increased scrub radius from different offset or wheel spacers, but OP wrote - stock wheels. No front toe-in too as it looks from printout. |
The Following User Says Thank You to churchx For This Useful Post: | Icecreamtruk (06-14-2019) |
06-14-2019, 04:59 AM | #5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Drives: 2002 VX Commodore SS LS1 Auto
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,203
Thanks: 500
Thanked 2,185 Times in 1,111 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
My 2 cents
Wind in some front camber, try -2.0 to -2.5 at the front with -0.5 less at the rear and zero out your toe. If your happy with that then good, if not, and you want faster turn in, go a little toe out at the front. 1mm total toe out will help, and not cause to much extra tyre wear daily driving. Pic attached of a tyre pushing up on the sidewall, see how far over the tyre wear is, I would throw a degree or 2 of camber at it. If your tyres look like this, and your at 35 psi, you need more camber. The little treadwear indicator triangle are a good guide for judging how much camber you need.
__________________
Disclaimer: This post represents the official views of the voices in my head at the time of posting.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133311 I'm only here for the biscuits |
06-14-2019, 06:09 AM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Drives: BRZ 2018
Location: Greece
Posts: 495
Thanks: 119
Thanked 135 Times in 95 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
You zeroed the previously -1 degree front camber which gives you more contact patch and heavy steering.
I did the opposite and have lighten my steering. IMHO if you drive on good roads follow the previous suggestions for much more camber front and slightly less rear, if you drive on slippery and bumpy roads as I do don’t add more than -1.5 degrees camber front/rear, I added 1mm/wheel toe out front and 0 rear cause I have more camber rear that I can’t adjust as I wanted! |
The Following User Says Thank You to JIM THEO For This Useful Post: | bhmax (06-14-2019) |
06-14-2019, 06:24 AM | #7 | |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Drives: Asphalt '16 FRS
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 32
Thanks: 5
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Being new to all this, is it reasonable that ~2 degree camber difference is enough to make me notice such changes in steering effort? The guy who did my alignment was seemingly knowledgeable and honest, although convincingly certain that camber doesn't affect steering weight. Sent me off saying all was fine. Thanks to all other responses too btw. |
|
06-14-2019, 06:59 AM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Drives: BRZ 2018
Location: Greece
Posts: 495
Thanks: 119
Thanked 135 Times in 95 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
It depends how sensitive you are in such camber changes but yes it's enough especially when you move from -2 degrees to 0 camber!
|
06-14-2019, 08:43 AM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Drives: 2017 BRZ
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,285
Thanks: 1,256
Thanked 2,928 Times in 1,714 Posts
Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
When I went to stock struts and alignment over the winter (had to get coils rebuilt) I was surprised it was less effort... And I didn't like it. I'd attribute that to the caster change and tire change all at once though. Still super quick and responsive, just... No effort required. Of course, the car pushed like a pig.
I think increased contact patch may be a thing when not moving. Less so under way, but still possible. But your description sounds more like you're pushing the car and finding under steer. Also expected with no negative camber up front.
__________________
Second chance build... or whatever it is.
|
06-14-2019, 09:38 AM | #10 |
Benz Tech
Join Date: Dec 2018
Drives: 2017 BRZ Premium
Location: Oregon
Posts: 580
Thanks: 363
Thanked 562 Times in 308 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Any reason they didn’t swing for caster? While it may not be adjustable, performing the measurement is part of an alignment.
They set your car to the specs the program kicked out. Les Schwab can set the alignment to spec, a good shop will set it where you want, or better yet, where they know an FRS needs to be for its intended purpose. |
|
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
RS1 alignment specs | DarkSideFRS | Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing | 0 | 08-08-2017 12:21 PM |
Alignment specs | Thatguyjeremy | Wheels | Tires | Spacers | Hub -- Sponsored by The Tire Rack | 3 | 05-06-2015 01:49 PM |
Autox alignment specs? | normanb21 | Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting | 18 | 02-12-2015 07:52 PM |
Alignment Specs? | 86_ZN6 | Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing | 13 | 06-10-2013 06:30 PM |
Alignment specs? | russv | Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing | 2 | 02-03-2013 10:16 AM |