follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Software Tuning

Software Tuning Discuss all software tuning topics.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-03-2014, 11:18 AM   #57
1Cor10:23
Senior Member
 
1Cor10:23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Drives: '13 Whiteout FR-S (M/T)
Location: GTA
Posts: 1,205
Thanks: 492
Thanked 392 Times in 238 Posts
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
@steve99 thanks for your work here, been reading through the posts and very helpful. My understanding is that IAM should be 1 and KC at zero? And any negative KC means a correction was made?

Will be doing some logging tonight so wanted to be sure of my understanding. Thanks!
1Cor10:23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 01:30 PM   #58
Kodename47
Senior Member
 
Kodename47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Drives: UK GT86
Location: UK
Posts: 3,040
Thanks: 185
Thanked 1,629 Times in 1,112 Posts
Mentioned: 155 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
It depends, if it's FBKC (Knock correction) on tip in then I think a small amount of knock is inevitable and if it's just pulling less than 1 deg then I wouldn't be concerned. You could pull half a degree or so in the whole area to see if it does reduce it though. If, however, it's showing FLKC (Knock Learning or Fine Correction) then I would definitely pull some more timing.

FBKC is active during rapid changes of load, ie transitioning to WOT.
FLKC is when load is more constent, ie during WOT or near steady throttle states.

You IAM will only drop if there is consistent high knock events in either.
__________________
.: Stealth 86 :.
Abbey Motorsport/K47 Tuned Sprintex 210 Supercharger

Kodename 47 DJ:
Soundcloud / Instagram / Facebook
Kodename47 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Kodename47 For This Useful Post:
1Cor10:23 (04-03-2014), Fizz (04-03-2014), steve99 (04-03-2014)
Old 04-03-2014, 01:33 PM   #59
1Cor10:23
Senior Member
 
1Cor10:23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Drives: '13 Whiteout FR-S (M/T)
Location: GTA
Posts: 1,205
Thanks: 492
Thanked 392 Times in 238 Posts
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodename47 View Post
It depends, if it's FBKC (Knock correction) on tip in then I think a small amount of knock is inevitable and if it's just pulling less than 1 deg then I wouldn't be concerned. You could pull half a degree or so in the whole area to see if it does reduce it though. If, however, it's showing FLKC (Knock Learning or Fine Correction) then I would definitely pull some more timing.

FBKC is active during rapid changes of load, ie transitioning to WOT.
FLKC is when load is more constent, ie during WOT or near steady throttle states.

You IAM will only drop if there is consistent high knock events in either.
Very insightful, thanks! And I'm assuming KC is measured in degrees?
1Cor10:23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 01:46 PM   #60
Kodename47
Senior Member
 
Kodename47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Drives: UK GT86
Location: UK
Posts: 3,040
Thanks: 185
Thanked 1,629 Times in 1,112 Posts
Mentioned: 155 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Cor10:23 View Post
Very insightful, thanks! And I'm assuming KC is measured in degrees?
Yes. I think the smallest value is 0.6 although I'm not 100% certain, you can adjust the amount the ECU pulls on various knock events but I'm not sure if KC is one of them. Basically if it's a brief event, the ECU instantly but briefly pulls a small bit of timing. If however it pulls a bit, then needs to pull even more it knows there's an issue and will reduce the IAM as a result.

When you're looking how to adjust the timing look a data point or 2 before you see the KC in the log and reference RPM and load. Then see how quickly the revs and load are changing. Then if you look in the ignition table you may find that that area is 2x3/3x3/4x2 cells and I would take a small amount out of all of them.
__________________
.: Stealth 86 :.
Abbey Motorsport/K47 Tuned Sprintex 210 Supercharger

Kodename 47 DJ:
Soundcloud / Instagram / Facebook
Kodename47 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Kodename47 For This Useful Post:
1Cor10:23 (04-03-2014), steve99 (04-03-2014)
Old 04-03-2014, 07:37 PM   #61
steve99
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Drives: FT86
Location: Australia
Posts: 7,998
Thanks: 1,035
Thanked 4,987 Times in 2,981 Posts
Mentioned: 598 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by akyp View Post
Thank you @steve99. Just flashed the 98 RON maps on page 1 and went for a drive: http://www.datazap.me/u/akyp/2014040...om=13406-13893

Still seeing some KC at 3000rpm though AM stays at 1.0. Should I pull more timing or is it within acceptable range?
As @Kodename47 says it pretty difficult to completely eliminate FBKC on quick throttle application at low rpm , I would probably pull another 0.35 degrees around the point where you see the -1.4 FBKC correction.

RPM 3000 load 1.0 , you may need to pull a bit in the adjacent cells load 0.9 and 1.1 as well.

Log it a couple of times and see if its consistent around that area before you pull any more. Anything up to -0.6 or so is probably ok and does not seem to result in IAM drop. Definitely look at anything consistently over -1.0 correction
steve99 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to steve99 For This Useful Post:
akyp (04-03-2014)
Old 04-03-2014, 07:43 PM   #62
steve99
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Drives: FT86
Location: Australia
Posts: 7,998
Thanks: 1,035
Thanked 4,987 Times in 2,981 Posts
Mentioned: 598 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Cor10:23 View Post
@steve99 thanks for your work here, been reading through the posts and very helpful. My understanding is that IAM should be 1 and KC at zero? And any negative KC means a correction was made?

Will be doing some logging tonight so wanted to be sure of my understanding. Thanks!
+1 on what @Kodename47 says he's right on the money

IAM should equal 1 or your tune is too aggressive for the octane level of the fuel your running.

Pretty difficult to completely eliminate absolutely all knock but you need to keep it to a level where its not dropping IAM Up to -0.6 probably ok anthing above -1.0 consistently then best to pull a bit of timing maybe 0.35 at that rpm/load point and maybe the adjacent cells as you were probably crossing through them when knock first occurred.
steve99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 09:00 PM   #63
arghx7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: car
Location: cold
Posts: 599
Thanks: 72
Thanked 607 Times in 185 Posts
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I've mentioned this in other threads but I will bring it up again. That pesky tip-in knock that doesn't seem to be affected by fuel quality or spark advance is most likely the result of the signal processing in the knock control system. Those settings are in there but they haven't been reverse engineered.

Before the knock control system as we know it existed, somebody had to configure the ECU to know what signal constitutes knock. Some guy in a lab somewhere made a decision about what frequency of vibration at the sensor will count as "real" knock based on listening to a microphone or looking at a cylinder pressure signal. Much of that development work at the OEM is done at steady-state on an engine dyno, with maybe some slight tweaks done later in the car. "borderline" knock is always a judgment call.

So if you see some knock that seems very stubborn, it's probably because some vibration occurred and the signal processor was never tuned from the factory to ignore it.
arghx7 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to arghx7 For This Useful Post:
akyp (04-03-2014), Fizz (04-03-2014), s2d4 (04-04-2014), steve99 (04-03-2014), Turdinator (04-03-2014), Yobiwan (10-26-2014)
Old 04-03-2014, 10:23 PM   #64
Fizz
Senior Addict
 
Fizz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Drives: 86 GT
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 1,217
Thanks: 249
Thanked 336 Times in 215 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I managed to get some 3rd gear WOT pulls yesterday (still on Shiv's standard v1.5x map): http://datazap.me/u/fizz/data-loggin...om=18041-18699

Would appreciate some comments on how it's performing at WOT, since my last two logs posted did not include high rpm pulls. The IAM is still low around 0.55, in fact this morning it's down to 0.47

Didn't have time to load @steve99's 98RON map but will do so today and log somemore over the weekend
Fizz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 11:28 PM   #65
steve99
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Drives: FT86
Location: Australia
Posts: 7,998
Thanks: 1,035
Thanked 4,987 Times in 2,981 Posts
Mentioned: 598 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizz View Post
I managed to get some 3rd gear WOT pulls yesterday (still on Shiv's standard v1.5x map): http://datazap.me/u/fizz/data-loggin...om=18041-18699

Would appreciate some comments on how it's performing at WOT, since my last two logs posted did not include high rpm pulls. The IAM is still low around 0.55, in fact this morning it's down to 0.47

Didn't have time to load @steve99's 98RON map but will do so today and log somemore over the weekend


Looks the same as mine did on 98 before running that 98RON map

Plenty of FBCK (Knock correction) 2000-3000 rpm causing your IAM to drop after is get a series of those events.

It knocking between 5000-7000, your KC learned is dropping due FLKC (not monitored directly on OFT) this is occurring even though you IAM has already dropped to 0.5 or so 50% of the KC learned timing has already been pulled due IAM drop. You can pick the FLKC as sharp drops in the kc learned values in that RPM range.

So looking at this bit of your log

http://datazap.me/u/fizz/data-loggin...544&mark=18401

FLKC = KC Learned - (Knock Correction Advance Max A Table value * IAM)

So at say 5200 rpm load = 1.1

FLKC = 0.34 - (5.98 * 0.55)

FLKC = - 2.9

Last edited by steve99; 04-03-2014 at 11:57 PM.
steve99 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to steve99 For This Useful Post:
Fizz (04-04-2014)
Old 04-04-2014, 12:09 AM   #66
Fizz
Senior Addict
 
Fizz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Drives: 86 GT
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 1,217
Thanks: 249
Thanked 336 Times in 215 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Thanks. Another thing....after flashing with a new map (i.e. your 98RON map) would the IAM automatically start at 1 again, or remains the same as it was prior to loading new map?

If it's the latter, how do I get it back to 1? Would it go up to 1 over time as it sees less knock etc?
Fizz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2014, 12:18 AM   #67
steve99
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Drives: FT86
Location: Australia
Posts: 7,998
Thanks: 1,035
Thanked 4,987 Times in 2,981 Posts
Mentioned: 598 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizz View Post
Thanks. Another thing....after flashing with a new map (i.e. your 98RON map) would the IAM automatically start at 1 again, or remains the same as it was prior to loading new map?

If it's the latter, how do I get it back to 1? Would it go up to 1 over time as it sees less knock etc?
the OFT (and 98RON) maps set the IAM back to 1, the stock factory maps IAM starts at 0.7.

hopefully it will look like @akyp 's log 5000-7000 after you flash it

http://www.datazap.me/u/akyp/2014040...zoom=3883-3974
steve99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2014, 01:06 AM   #68
Fizz
Senior Addict
 
Fizz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Drives: 86 GT
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 1,217
Thanks: 249
Thanked 336 Times in 215 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Thanks again. By the way does my AFR at 5000 to 6000+ rpm look lean or ok?
Fizz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2014, 03:03 AM   #69
steve99
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Drives: FT86
Location: Australia
Posts: 7,998
Thanks: 1,035
Thanked 4,987 Times in 2,981 Posts
Mentioned: 598 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizz View Post
Thanks again. By the way does my AFR at 5000 to 6000+ rpm look lean or ok?
Looks slightly rich now 11.4 pretty sure shiv targets 11.6-11.8 WOT , your LTFT looks reasnoble as well was -7 from memory last time.
steve99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2014, 10:27 AM   #70
Fizz
Senior Addict
 
Fizz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Drives: 86 GT
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 1,217
Thanks: 249
Thanked 336 Times in 215 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve99 View Post
Looks slightly rich now 11.4 pretty sure shiv targets 11.6-11.8 WOT , your LTFT looks reasnoble as well was -7 from memory last time.
Loaded your 98RON map to my car, and took it for a spin. Looking better now the IAM up to 0.94 at the end of the run.

What do ya think? Any particular issues? There's a number of times where the KC dropped, as low as -2.8 is that something to be concerned about?

http://datazap.me/u/fizz/98ron-map-l...0&data=1-11-12
Fizz is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Knock Correction vs Knock Correction Learn values? swift996 Software Tuning 19 11-03-2015 10:09 PM
Dynosty Fuel System Upgrades- Billet Fuel Rails!!! Dustin@Dynosty Forced Induction 4 10-08-2014 10:00 AM
FuelLog (Android) App:~10k miles of MPG, Range, Fuel Prices, Fuel Qty, Etc. MmmDieselFumes Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 28 02-02-2014 08:19 PM
Fuel gauge misreading actual fuel in tank. Scionshaun Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 19 10-09-2013 03:39 PM
Dynosty FR-S/BRZ Fuel System Upgrades! Deatschwerks DW65C Fuel Pump Dustin@Dynosty Engine, Exhaust, Bolt-Ons 3 08-21-2012 04:53 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.