TMP track times

[infinity21]

Saying you're either "neutral-steer" or excessive under/over-steering is a false dichotomy. When I'm on track, I usually experience mild understeer (fast), mild oversteer (fast), or somewhere in between (fastest). Sliding the tires is the fastest way around a corner - full stop.

Statements like "The fastest drivers never lock the brakes." is simply false and doesn't help the cause. Fastest drivers in the world make mistakes all the time. F1 would be incredibly boring otherwise.

I won't keep beating a dead horse. Analyzing driving is a fine topic to tackle but this article didn't really get anywhere.

[n0thing]

Someone lend him a stock 86 to show us how it's done.

[infinity21]

I'd be happy to as long as he has proper track insurance

[Frost]

Originally Posted by infinity21

I'd be happy to as long as he has proper track insurance

You said it, not me.

[Turbo]

Originally Posted by n0thing

1:21.8. I will continue my pursuit of 1:20.

What gears are you going through the 3-4-5 complex in here?


I originally thought you were in 4th as you approached #2, then downshifted to 3rd as you slowed and set up for the corner, and stayed in 3rd through the complex but then I caught another downshift and was confused.

[n0thing]

Originally Posted by Turbo

What gears are you going through the 3-4-5 complex in here?


I originally thought you were in 4th as you approached #2, then downshifted to 3rd as you slowed and set up for the corner, and stayed in 3rd through the complex but then I caught another downshift and was confused.

In the video I was running 4.8FD, so I was in 5th-4th-3rd. When I had the stock FD, it would've been 4th-3rd-2nd.

[TorontoNat]

Originally Posted by 86Tony

Ended my season with a 1:17.95, now to go for that 16s next year

whaaaaaaaaaat is this Laf looking digital guage thing and where can i get one.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by TorontoNat

whaaaaaaaaaat is this Laf looking digital guage thing and where can i get one.

I second this notion

[TorontoNat]

Originally Posted by Frost

Unless he brings you proper proof (ie: time attack results or in car videos or something that can be fact checked), I have at least 2 people I know who are acutely tuned to the FRS platform and have driven it on TMP to say what a stock FRS + suspension + alignment + tires can do and we are all in agreement that 1:19 is not happening let alone MULTIPLE different drivers doing it.

I am sure the people you are referencing here are outstanding drivers but... you mean to tell me you think Ayrton Senna wouldn't beat these guys by a second or two if not more?

Point is there is always a bigger fish and "not possible" is subjective to skill. (obviously we are all reasonable here and 119 is only a few seconds off... if someone had said "I can do it stock in under a minute" then yes... not possible.

[Lynxis]

Originally Posted by TorontoNat

I am sure the people you are referencing here are outstanding drivers but... you mean to tell me you think Ayrton Senna wouldn't beat these guys by a second or two if not more?

Point is there is always a bigger fish and "not possible" is subjective to skill. (obviously we are all reasonable here and 119 is only a few seconds off... if someone had said "I can do it stock in under a minute" then yes... not possible.

I think if you were running Hoosier R7/A7 it would be possible on an otherwise stock car but I can't see a sub 1:20 happening on street tires without other major performance enhancements.

That said, I've also met people who believe a "stock" car is anything that hasn't had the engine built/swapped.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by TorontoNat

I am sure the people you are referencing here are outstanding drivers but... you mean to tell me you think Ayrton Senna wouldn't beat these guys by a second or two if not more?

Point is there is always a bigger fish and "not possible" is subjective to skill. (obviously we are all reasonable here and 119 is only a few seconds off... if someone had said "I can do it stock in under a minute" then yes... not possible.

There are always better drivers but the platform in itself is a mechanical and thus physically limited item. Will Senna be able to eke out more time? Absolutely. But DRASTIC amounts of time? Unlikely (still possible but unlikely).

The real thing is that the claim is that MULTIPLE drivers have done this and as far as there is evidence (real videos or unmolested track data), one should not make wild and outrageous claims. The point is that credibility is an issue. For example, 10 years ago, no one would have said a stock AP2 S2000 with square setup and offset ball joints (for alignment) would be able to hit 1:19 at TMP yet I have a video from Ramesh Krishnan that totally smashed that. Is there a possibility to get more time? Possibly. If I could get Senna in the car, he would likely beat Ramesh. But crush him by 2-3 seconds? Unlikely. Without proof, internet posts are just that: words on a page.

As for stock vehicles, I am personally a huge fan of keeping it stock and scrape up every ounce of performance before modding but even I know the plateaus one would hit before you must make 'improvements'.

[Tokay444]

Telling people you can help them achieve a sub 1:20 lap time in a stock FRS, is a good way to get gullible people to believe you're a driving instructor, and then take their money.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

Telling people you can help them achieve a sub 1:20 lap time in a stock FRS, is a good way to get gullible people to believe you're a driving instructor, and then take their money.

This. This is why credibility is an issue.

If you're helping someone new come into the sport, laptimes should not even be brought up. Seating position, where to look, when to look, situational awareness, smoothness on inputs, etc. are FAR more important before you come anywhere near lap times.

[Frost]

Also, while we're on the topic of Senna level drivers, I want to point out the differences between a God like Senna and me is that he can be good in anything in a rapid amount of time and absorb the tiniest amount of feedback and predict what the car can do. Me on the other hand? I have to brute force and simply get TONS of lap time in ONE car to get within his range in the same car.

In the end, for me, it's the pursuit of improvement that keeps me going. How can I do this better? And to an extension to my students, how can I get them better now and keep them going to improve continuously as well? As opposed to burn them out in one session.

It is entirely plausible on the low limit platform like the FRZ for a no-name driver to be almost tied with a God level driver like Senna simply because there's only so much performance to be had (assuming exact same car). On the other hand, put the same drivers behind a F1 car and the gap becomes exponentially bigger.

People forget good drivers are not a constant -xx.xxx seconds faster than the average human. They're just fast but the physics still dictate they are limited by the platform.