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Forced Induction Turbo, Supercharger, Methanol, Nitrous |
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01-15-2013, 06:24 PM | #71 | |
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A stout 50 LbFt extra across the entire RPM band would be a stout kick in the pants no matter if you're stuck in traffic and just need to tip-in or if your blasting down a twisty stretch of fun road.
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01-15-2013, 06:42 PM | #72 | |
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01-15-2013, 06:42 PM | #73 | |
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"Keep tiptoeing the Ban line and you are gonna fall face first into it...." He got BANNED!
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01-15-2013, 06:43 PM | #74 |
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Sorry to butt in, but is the reason people go turbo that you get more power for the money compared to SC? Maybe the SC kit market needs some more competition so the prices go down and so we don't have to talk about using crippled turbochargers to get the same effect :P Talk of small turbines makes me cringe.
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01-15-2013, 06:46 PM | #75 |
Banned
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01-15-2013, 06:47 PM | #76 |
I Love custom Turbo kits
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01-15-2013, 07:33 PM | #77 |
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It was neccessary in my opinion you can't try to scare members from purchasing other vendors kits based on where they are made. It was getting real out of hand the last couple days.
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The Following User Says Thank You to JoeBoxer For This Useful Post: | Sportsguy83 (01-15-2013) |
01-15-2013, 08:33 PM | #78 | ||
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We're all here because we appreciate the car. We're not trying to ruin it, but sometimes our boisterous optimism can cloud our vision and produce results that are less than ideal. I only ask that we raise the bar, not lower it.
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01-15-2013, 09:22 PM | #79 | |
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The turbo's natural habitat is boosting the engine's maximum power, because the turbine does the best job of collecting waste energy when it is free flowing. If you throw response out the window, pretty good thermal efficiency gains can be had too. "Small" is relative, and in principle a "small" turbine paired with a very free flowing housing and the right compressor can give a very efficient 270hp setup. What makes me dislike turbos is that dyno queens aside, this typically isn't what people want to use a turbo for. First of all if you want response, any turbo is by default giving up a few hundred milliseconds or more of transient response time. A turbo that makes a whole lot of boost at low-mid engine speeds is by default restricting the top end, whether or not the torque is falling off or not. It *is* reducing efficiency. Then it gets worse, because some people decide they need more boost in the previously deficient places in the powerband, and then they use a wastegate to vent off some pressure and stop the engine from blowing up. And as you know, typical aftermarket wastegate is not electronically controlled. At this point, you have the same powerband as a positive displacement supercharger at less cost, but the transient response is worse, there is more piping, the turbo is wasting some energy during daily driving, and you've thrown away efficiency everywhere except at low engine speed where the turbo starts to produce some boost (and this is only at maximum load obviously). Doesn't a Roots blower seem much more elegant to you? Less valves, less piping, better response (probably easier to tune I imagine), and comparable or better efficiency, depending on which blower is being used. The only place it's less efficient is when you stomp on the gas pedal at low rpm, which isn't really good for the engine anyways. |
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01-15-2013, 10:40 PM | #80 |
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Who are we doing this for; "the others" or for the joy of the drive?
Of course a Roots or TVS would be better for response and system "purity" if you will, but that area of the aftermarket just isn't caught up yet. With a turbo setup where you're trying to stretch the bandwidth, you'll rarely have an ideal scenario where you're operating at peak efficiency of every facet of the system at all times, it just can't happen unless you're driving a Toyota HSD or similar. Until the mainstream catches up the concept of "Greenformance", we'll just have to focus on fitting engines like the FA20 to our own needs. Nevertheless, BMW & MINI make it happen with good success in their latest crop of T-GDI engines. They have broad power bands and good response with respectable [but not amazing] BMEP. Like I said, you can't have it all, you can only try to optimize the system the best way we know how. If MINI can get an OEM BMEP of 318 with a broad RPM band [it's higher in practice, but that's with the advertised torque], why can't we as a collective aftermarket? That equates to 257 LbFt at the crank with the FA20. Spread that amount of torque as far across the board as possible and you have a recipe for a super flexible and satisfying powertrain. @arghx7 pointed out Subaru's next-gen engine and IMO it would be a great fit for a BRZ STI. Personally, I'd prefer an FR-S TRD using a Roots blower setup, but that's just my driving-pleasure preference and isn't solely based in logic. 300HP and 295LbFt would be killer. IMO the car doesn't need that much, but that's the torque shelf that would zap the car awake in a big way.
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01-16-2013, 04:47 AM | #81 |
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I've replaced a TRD M45-based charger on a corolla before with a stock secondhand MY08 WRX TD04L turbo on home-made manifold etc. Totally woke the car up compared to the TRD charger, gave it a much wider powerband and made an additional 30kw at the treads with 3psi less boost. The transient response and general throttle response is as good if not better than the TRD charger setup, the fuel consumption also improved considerably with the turbo setup.
The TRD charger sounded cool, but the turbo setup is much more fun in a daily driver I like all different setups, but I'll be turbo'ing my 86 with a normal GT28R for response seeing it's a daily driver. Vid's of the corolla I've referenced are here: Supercharged [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=favjur3UDCY"]ZZE122R with TRD Supercharger Dyno Run - YouTube[/ame] Turbocharged [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5S6hcDXIJo"]1zzfte dyno run - YouTube[/ame] I'm a big fan of high compression forced induction Last edited by JP; 01-16-2013 at 05:13 AM. |
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01-16-2013, 09:04 AM | #82 |
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You have other gears for a reason. Stop being lazy and shift into 5th or, hell, even 4th, if you want to pass. It's more fun that way anyways.
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The Following User Says Thank You to thejevans For This Useful Post: | Huehuecoyotl (01-16-2013) |
01-16-2013, 10:30 AM | #83 |
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That's enough condescension about shifting laziness. If I'm looking for peak acceleration I'll select the gear that does such. My criteria offers drivability flexibility. If we can engineer a solution that does the job better, why wouldn't you want that?
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01-19-2013, 04:48 PM | #84 |
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^ Ryephile. I like the way you think. Keep us posted.
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