Tada Tetsuya Announces Updated 86 Will Be Coming... Soon

[regal]

Originally Posted by xxBrun0xx

I'm not sure I agree with this, and here's why:

1. With more power, there's no obvious direction for people to start modding towards. They knew this would be a popular tuner, so giving people an obvious starting point makes a lot of sense

2. Stock, this car corners like it's on rails. If you add 50-100 hp, it's going lose grip on those same corners if you drive it anywhere near the limit

3. What if you put stickier tires from the factory? Now, you lose the ability to get the rear end loose at safe speeds on public roads

4. +30 mpg is really attractive for a lot of us coming form high-hp, low mpg cars. Add a turbo? That goes out the window. Run a 2.5L? Now you've got lots of low end torque without much steam up high and a much lower redline (assuming it's anything like Subaru's current 2.5's). You also screw up the weight balance and you'll be lucky to get 30mpg, let alone the 35 some of us have gotten

5. A higher hp car would also likely require larger brakes + rotors (higher initial cost + maintenance costs)

If you make all of those changes, you're significantly upping the cost of manufacturing the car, which will be passed on to the consumer. At $35k, would anyone buy a 300 hp brz with a worse weight balance, reduced mpg, higher maintenance costs, and (probably) worse handling? Maybe, but there is a LOT more competition at that price point. I love that my car only has 200 hp and understand that there is more to being "fast" than 0-60 times and highway pulls. I love how simple everything is and how easy the car is to work on. Call me crazy, but I think the engineers at Subaru actually knew what they were doing.

Originally Posted by czar07

1. What...????
2. It will still corner like its on rails. The car isnt very grippy stock anyway...
3. A stupid statement because getting the rear end loose on public roads isnt safe anyway...
4. I dont care about mileage so meh
5. Why? if it weighs almost the same, I dont see how more HP will require bigger brakes..on the street anyway...all you are doing is getting to a the speed limit faster...

Even #4 is B.S when a turbo is idling at cruising speeds you loose less than a half a mpg, xxBrun0xx you need to read some Corky Bell. The two biggest US auto makers went to DIT because the gas milage is so good better hp mpg ratio. The FA20T could be tuned a million ways and surely it won't be worse mpg.


I am personally over Tada. I think he is a pinup boy with no real say or power at Toyota. 2-3 years ago he was claiming loads of TRD upgrades would be available right away, we don't even have a matched set of TRD struts and lowering springs. My frickin Yaris has more TRD parts available. You can buy a TRD supercharger for a gd Tc but not an FRS? That's fricken nuts.


If I was a mod I would change the title of this thread to "Tada announces he is full of crap".


I know its sacrilege but I hate Tada if he was truly the guy who wouldn't let Subaru put a version of the FA20T in this car and I don't want more power I just want a turbo so the sales don't drop off a cliff.


Last I am really questioning whether he was behind the concept/styling/bringing the car to fruition. I think it might be a bit a fairy tail or spin Toyota came up with to build sales.

[Quentin]

There are loads of TRD parts for the 86. They just aren't available in the US and that has zero to do with Tada. Toyota Motor Sales makes the call of what gets offered here.

Your conspiracy theories are getting a bit ridiculous.

[regal]

Originally Posted by Quentin

There are loads of TRD parts for the 86. They just aren't available in the US and that has zero to do with Tada. Toyota Motor Sales makes the call of what gets offered here.

Your conspiracy theories are getting a bit ridiculous.

The words came out of TADA's mouth, the denial around here is definitely ridiculous. Tada is not Jesus Christ and he has told many lies and him or someone has made many mistakes IMHO. I guess it will take another 6 months before people wake up and smell the coffee as the other "conspiracy" theories I spelled out turned out to be rea. And you live in WV, perfect home for an FRS.


What are you waiting for?




Oh I see you have cold feet and haven't bought one yet, just don't by one that has a 2012 build date sticker on the door sill (I'm trying to help you out here.)




If you like the torque curve these are neat cars and make awesome daily drivers in twisty country, I love mine.

[Kids Heart]

Originally Posted by Eminent Performance

As much as I want to keep the car N/A, I have to agree it needs to either get a 2.5 N/A or a turbo. I think 50-100hp to the wheel is really needed stock to be competitive and to really do the chassis justice.

Not everyone is willing to put in all the track days and all that is needed to be an "equal" driver with the next guy. And some of us want to just have extra passing power. I came from the G35 crowd so I welcomed the light weight, canyon carving aggressiveness of the car - and I still love mine! But to say I don't WANT more power is a blatant lie.

I am scared with all that "FRS isn't selling well" talk, that they may just leave it as is and do minor tweaks and then cut-and-run. I really hope that doesn't happen.

At the same time, cars like the original 86 and the 240SX and even the 350Z now, have lasted the test of time and become great hits with the aftermarket even till today. So maybe we all just need to give the car some time to mature and accumulate some aftermarket interest... see where the road takes us... so to speak! ;-) ... Either way... I love the FRS and 99% of owners / randoms who walk by are awesome! I've gotten many gas station conversations about my car and people love to hear I get 30 MPG and shred tires on some weekends haha.

I came from the S-chassis/sr20det crowd and my BR-Z Limited wants a damn turbo. In a couple of years when its paid off and the Subaru stuffs in the FA20DIT I will determine if its worth a trade of go aftermarket.

[Tromatic]

Originally Posted by Quentin

There are loads of TRD parts for the 86. They just aren't available in the US and that has zero to do with Tada. Toyota Motor Sales makes the call of what gets offered here.

Your conspiracy theories are getting a bit ridiculous.

Sadly, the gearheads do not run Toyota. They might have the most awesome 32k car ever built sitting in the R&D shop, but if they can't convince to money guys, so sad.

I still think that they will bring the 86 here, and sell of ton of them. What will all the people do who have rebadged do?

Here, my official prediction: Toyota and Subaru heavies get so tired of the purse-swinging between the various people and departments involved they decide to kill the car in three years.

[regal]

Originally Posted by Tromatic

Sadly, the gearheads do not run Toyota. They might have the most awesome 32k car ever built sitting in the R&D shop, but if they can't convince to money guys, so sad. .

[quote=Tromatic;1595603]




Oh I know that, that why it psses me off he said there would be TRD power upgrades available in the US before they appear on the refresh. He knew it wouldn't happen dam well too.

Originally Posted by Tromatic

I still think that they will bring the 86 here, and sell of ton of them. What will all the people do who have rebadged do? .

I just don't see many people trading an FRZ for a GT86
I think they will kill the FRS / GT-86 and give the rights to Subaru in some trade deal for whats left of Scion.

Originally Posted by Tromatic

Here, my official prediction: Toyota and Subaru heavies get so tired of the purse-swinging between the various people and departments involved they decide to kill the car in three years.

I like predictions (that's what the internet I for right?) Yours is a pretty damn good one. Oh wait you're a conspiracy theorist, watch this guy

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by regal

The words came out of TADA's mouth, the denial around here is definitely ridiculous. Tada is not Jesus Christ and he has told many lies and him or someone has made many mistakes IMHO. I guess it will take another 6 months before people wake up and smell the coffee as the other "conspiracy" theories I spelled out turned out to be rea. And you live in WV, perfect home for an FRS.

What are you waiting for?

Oh I see you have cold feet and haven't bought one yet, just don't by one that has a 2012 build date sticker on the door sill (I'm trying to help you out here.)

If you like the torque curve these are neat cars and make awesome daily drivers in twisty country, I love mine.

I have a 19 month old daughter that won't be forward facing until this summer. For the time being, it makes more sense to hold on to our Prius v so we at least have 2 cars that can fit the rear facing convertible car seat. In august or sept I plan on offloading the Prius and getting an FR-S. It there are powertrain updates, I'll buy a used '13 or '14 and cash in on people having to have a little more power. If not, I'll get a '15 through my company car program at work. The car is perfect as it sits spec wise, IMO. I remember asking for 180hp, 7500redline, and 2600 lbs when they first showed the FT86 Concept 1. They've pretty much nailed what I wanted.

[Chad86]

Originally Posted by Quentin

I have a 19 month old daughter that won't be forward facing until this summer. For the time being, it makes more sense to hold on to our Prius v so we at least have 2 cars that can fit the rear facing convertible car seat. In august or sept I plan on offloading the Prius and getting an FR-S. It there are powertrain updates, I'll buy a used '13 or '14 and cash in on people having to have a little more power. If not, I'll get a '15 through my company car program at work. The car is perfect as it sits spec wise, IMO. I remember asking for 180hp, 7500redline, and 2600 lbs when they first showed the FT86 Concept 1. They've pretty much nailed what I wanted.

Nailed it! Exactly!

[regal]

Originally Posted by Quentin

I have a 19 month old daughter that won't be forward facing until this summer. For the time being, it makes more sense to hold on to our Prius v so we at least have 2 cars that can fit the rear facing convertible car seat. In august or sept I plan on offloading the Prius and getting an FR-S. It there are powertrain updates, I'll buy a used '13 or '14 and cash in on people having to have a little more power. If not, I'll get a '15 through my company car program at work. The car is perfect as it sits spec wise, IMO. I remember asking for 180hp, 7500redline, and 2600 lbs when they first showed the FT86 Concept 1. They've pretty much nailed what I wanted.

Mine's 17, rides fairly comfortable in the back but rarely. A car seat is sort of a game changer with any car. Our car seat years were an ex police crown vic, worked great. You gotta really want this car to deal with a car seat (or be in great physical shape )


You have my respect.

[Sport-Tech]

About that refresh - there seem to be 2 possible scenarios for it:

A. It comes to us in the upcoming '15 model year. In which case it will be quite minor - a few little styling changes, perhaps a standard armrest, new HU, more paint options, no engine changes, addresses a few issues e.g. window seals, revised fuel injector seals. Why so minor? If the twins were really getting a substantive update this year, this would have been trumpeted loudly at press conferences during the recent round of car shows, and the new revision would have been put on display. The fact that this did not happen is strong evidence that any changes in '15 will be trivial.

B. Another year as-is, then a substantial mid-cycle refresh for MY 2016, which addresses most of the common complaints - changes above plus upgraded engine with 220 hp and 175 torques, new wheels with better rubber, revised dash, analog speedo swapped for digital display, nicer HVAC for base models, standard HID/LED lighting, perhaps upgraded brakes and a few suspension changes. This car will be on show next year in Detroit, NY, and/or Geneva.

[regal]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

About that refresh - there seem to be 2 possible scenarios for it:

- changes above plus upgraded engine with 220 hp and 175 torques, .

couple things I doubt they could squeeze even 20 whp out of this motor and especially not 175 torque without FI, imho it would be more expensive than tweaking the FA20T


If you mean advertised HP, well that's not enough to generate any more interest IMO.


Your're kinda describing the end of the platform. Basically the Miata business model which isn't worth Toyotas time imo. Maybe subaru's

[Extreme86]

Originally Posted by Rayme

It sounds like a normal mid-cycle refresh to me. Any good manufacturer does it and toyota is pretty good on keeping their cars refreshed every 3-4 years or so. New bumpers/lights and wheels and interior quirks. I'd like to see a 2.0 turbo version but I won't be able to afford it though haha, if this car gets more power they will upgrade everything else accordingly skyrocketing the price.

How about the best of both worlds? A 2015 Model Refresh + an improved N/A engine (to address the complaints/problems) across the current line-up to keep the platform affordable, pure and balanced and then give us an early (May of 2015) release of a 2016 BRZ STI turbo and might as well bring a 2016 GT86 turbo "TRD" version to the Toyota dealerships in the states - (if Scion is gonna be on the "conspiracy to-do list" to be axed sometime in the near future). Turbos would have beefed up drive-trains, suspensions, brakes, tires/wheels to handle more power and torque. Gives consumers a choice on how much money they want to spend and removes the stigma of 86 cars being underpowered thereby attracting more new buyers. No-brainer really - come on Toyota / Subaru ... wake up!!! Plenty of time to accomplish this.

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by regal

Mine's 17, rides fairly comfortable in the back but rarely. A car seat is sort of a game changer with any car. Our car seat years were an ex police crown vic, worked great. You gotta really want this car to deal with a car seat (or be in great physical shape )


You have my respect.

Haha, being 5'8" and 143 lbs is occasionally advantageous. It is definitely a bear getting the car seat in and out (I have test fit our Chicco Nextfit... rear facing is a non-starter), but I've wanted this car a long time. It is just now getting to be the "right" timing. We will mostly drive the Rav but when I take my daughter to see my parents on the weekends that my wife works, we'll enjoy cutting through the mountains in my car.

[regal]

Originally Posted by Extreme86

How about the best of both worlds? A 2015 Model Refresh + an improved N/A engine (to address the complaints/problems) across the current line-up to keep the platform affordable, pure and balanced and then give us an early (May of 2015) release of a 2016 BRZ STI turbo and might as well bring a 2016 GT86 turbo "TRD" version to the Toyota dealerships in the states - (if Scion is gonna be on the "conspiracy to-do list" to be axed sometime in the near future). Turbos would have beefed up drive-trains, suspensions, brakes, tires/wheels to handle more power and torque. Gives consumers a choice on how much money they want to spend and removes the stigma of 86 cars being underpowered thereby attracting more new buyers. No-brainer really - come on Toyota / Subaru ... wake up!!! Plenty of time to accomplish this.

Well turbos aren't reliable enough for the Toyota nameplate, Tada hates them. Toyota is one of the last hold outs on small car DIT's.


IME Squeezing more reliable hp out of the NA FA20 would be more expensive that tweaking the FA20T that's been on the shelf a couple years.


See where I'm going with this? I've been saying a while now that this car will only survive as a Subaru. I think Toyota is after the BMW M2 price category for a sporty GT. I mean The M1 was practically a Supra except the exterior (twin turbo, I6,rwd and unlimited HP.)


Toyota's statements recently just add up to a loss of interest by them. Subaru on the other hand has a car (including the FRS) that sold more than the WRX domestically. They have more incentive and hold the cards with a Toyota free DIT engine on the shelf ready to be detuned a little a dropped in. Alll they need is more dealerships, that's where Scion' departure from Toyota comes in.




Scion was supposed to sell to the younger Japanese car buyer cool crowd , but since its inceptions the WRX is the hip car. Subaru could revitalize Scion with the BRZ and WRX alone, add a hatchback. I think the hand writing is on the wall. They might not call them Scions but I think a deal is in the works.


Think of this : financially Subaru needs this platform, Toyota doesn't.