What's Going on Between Toyota & Subaru on the Convertible Version of the 86/FR-S/BRZ

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by husker741

They think they know what us Americans really want. All we want is more fucking power, not a stupid soft-top convertible. READ THE DAMN FORUMS!

What users post in forums often doesn't translate to sales. For years everyone bitched the Miata was underpowered... Mazda finally made a turbo version and it flopped.

Originally Posted by Grateful Dave

Because you still like the body shape, the platform, suspension, and the motor? You don't have to throw the baby out with the bath water. There is talk of a sedan. I don't want either. I just want new tires, suspension and a TRD Supercharger for my FRS. I know I'll be waiting awhile for the TRD Supercharger.

I didn't buy this car for its shape.

The platform is excellent for a 4 seat, RWD coupe. Would need significant modifications/reinforcements to convert to a roadster (and would likely be heavier than the Miata).

Its suspension is excellent, but so is the Miata's.

That leaves the motor, which I agree is better than the current Miata's. But the weaker MZR moves the lighter Miata as quickly as the FA20 moves the FT86. Add weight to the FT86 and that'll change. Also, the ND Miata will be out before a hypothetical F86 roadster.

Originally Posted by White64Goat

Rear seats are for insurance purposes only. (240SX)

Limited utility != only for insurance purposes.

I was able to get this car precisely because it has rear seats... I often carry 1 child back there, and occasionally 2. Have had an adult back there for a few short trips as well.

Originally Posted by tacoss23

Everything that makes this car good it's thanks to Subaru engineering, not Toyota.

It irks me every time I see Toyota getting credit for this car. Everything you love about this car is Subaru engineering, everything not important like the style and the horrid interior is Toyota.

Christ-in-a-sidecar, not the Toyota vs Subaru argument again.

I'm a Subaru guy, but I give Toyota some credit: Their idea and initiative, their planning and design, their fuel system, their funding.

Originally Posted by OICU812

if Subaru had not made the deadline to get involved, car still would have existed just would have had a different engine etc,,nothing much more.

Subaru platform, motor, engineering, and manufacturing.

I tend to think of the car as 2 parts Subaru, 1 part Toyota. Both companies deserve credit.

[daiheadjai]

I don't understand why people say the backseats are useless.
I've carried one person back there, and I've also sat in it myself (behind a shorter guy who was probably 5'6 or 5'7, but still not exactly a dwarf).

Not sure who to believe in this whole discussion about convertible or no... Didn't Tada once say there were no plans for a convertible of this car?

[mackdaddytran]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

What's Going on Between Toyota and Subaru on the Convertible Version of the GT-86/FR-S/BRZ?

Attachment 57894

http://www.carscoops.com/2013/11/wha...nd-subaru.html

Recognize your username from H-I

[guysmyley]

walks into a room... on the desk is a pile of papers full of auto reviews, owners, and potential owners all writing about improving engine performance

dismisses all of the criticisms, saying AWD, turbo, larger engine, etc will compromise his supposedly sacred vision of light handling, god forbid that come in the way of subie's entire brand history of AWD

goes to his desk and starts drawing up convertibles, sedans, hatchbacks, which basically compromise exactly that

Originally Posted by Grateful Dave

Toyota and Subaru have had their disagreements before (rear wheel drive Toyota vs all wheel drive Subaru) which stopped production for so many months. Subaru had to be shown the nice things about rear wheel for this car from Toyota. Then Subaru agreed and went forward. The same thing will happen here. They should take the back seats out and make it a two seater. They can modify the frame structure and add a flat roll bar behind the seats for safety. It might add some weight but it can be done.

[Grateful Dave]

Originally Posted by guysmyley

walks into a room... on the desk is a pile of papers full of auto reviews, owners, and potential owners all writing about improving engine performance

dismisses all of the criticisms, saying AWD, turbo, larger engine, etc will compromise his supposedly sacred vision of light handling, god forbid that come in the way of subie's entire brand history of AWD

goes to his desk and starts drawing up convertibles, sedans, hatchbacks, which basically compromise exactly that

As I understand it. Tada San and Mr. Toyoda had a vision. A light weight, great handling, good MPGs, everyday utility 2+2 coupe econo sportcar. Just fast enough to have fun. They stuck with their guns. I'm glad they did. The 86/FRS/BRZ is exactly the car I was looking for. I heard Mr. Toyota would check on the project every 30 days personally. It was his baby.

I really enjoy my FRS after installing the Greddy intake and Evo3 exhaust, and the lighter Enkei rims, 3 pounds lighter per rim. My performance increased without weight gain. Now it is acceptable. A little more performance gain without weight gain would be great. I guess a tune would solve that. Not sure who has the best tune. I heard Cobb has good tunes for the Subarus but nothing available for the BRZ/FRS. I'll wait and see

Which brings up a point, Toyota should have installed a better exhaust, intake, lighter rims and have a better performance tune to start with. This is directly related to the driving experience (their sales pitch) and it wouldn't have costed that much more and the buyers would be happier. We wouldn't be bitchin' about performance, Just about the cheap interior.

[Grateful Dave]

Originally Posted by daiheadjai

I don't understand why people say the backseats are useless.
I've carried one person back there, and I've also sat in it myself (behind a shorter guy who was probably 5'6 or 5'7, but still not exactly a dwarf).

Not sure who to believe in this whole discussion about convertible or no... Didn't Tada once say there were no plans for a convertible of this car?

I have yet to carry a person in the backseat after 1 year and 5 months. 99.99% I don't need a backseat, I'm glad it is there if I need it in a pinch. If I needed the backseat 10-25% of the time, I would have bought a different car, a sedan. I always say the backseat is for short people for short rides. lol

I did hear Tada say no convertibles early in the game. I thought he said that so people wouldn't wait for it and not buy the 2+2 coupe. Didn't they show the white convertible 86 concept at last year's Geneva Auto Show? I saw promotional pics of it.

[Mulder]

IMHO, get a more powerful version out first, and THEN worry about gimmicks like a convertible. I want my power!

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by Joeprelude

Guess they scrapped the s1500... S660 appears to be a MR Kei car, with a 660cc engine....interesting




Sent from my 2013 Toyota Scion FR-S using Tapatalk 2

(this was the s1500 rendering)

Um you do know thats really a Pontiac Solstice...

There is no such thing as a Honda S1500.

[Bad Habits]

A convertible would be great. Male flight attendants and spoiled jersey jewish girls that need a sweet 16 birthday present need something to drive too.

Dear Subaru and Toyota,

Did you really think this little joint project was going to work out?

Sincerely,

Someone who saw this bitch fest coming from the start

[vh_supra26]

Does anyone think that Toyota will develop the 2nd gen 86/FR-S by itself?

[njccmd2002]

make this car a convertible for mid life crisis soccer moms whose kids left off for college.

bad as it is right now. they are making too many cars. Way too accessible now. A lot of disappointment when I see another FRS on the road, i see the driver and not what i expected, and ill leave it at that!!!

[Accurate Race Shop]

Originally Posted by njccmd2002

make this car a convertible for mid life crisis soccer moms whose kids left off for college.

bad as it is right now. they are making too many cars. Way too accessible now. A lot of disappointment when I see another FRS on the road, i see the driver and not what i expected, and ill leave it at that!!!

The only issue is that if the sales numbers do not increase these cars will go away. They will not reach 15k (last I checked) cars sold this year for the fr-s. 15k might sound like a lot but ford has sold over a half million pickups this year at a higher profit margin. This shows way more people like trucks than sports cars which might make toyota drop the fr-s and spend the money developing another truck or really ramping up the tundra. This happened in the 90s when toyota discontinued all sports cars that were aimed for the masses and went on to build compact family cars as they had a higher demand. At the end of the day every company is in it for the money and if these don't start making some more money I doubt they will last long. So don't get upset when you see an old lady driving one she is just ensuring that these cars stay around and progress in the coming years.

Sent from my Q10

[Whitigir]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

Does anyone think that Toyota will develop the 2nd gen 86/FR-S by itself?

Yes. Tada san said that in some of the interview already.

- He wanted a cheap, good handling compact, rwd. But Subaru wanted a DI system, and Toyota had no engine developed for the project, Subaru proposed FA20. Subaru got the DI system, and the designed car. Toyota got FA20 engine, and their badge on the product. 86 was born.

- The FA20 and the supportive drive train for it cost more than what Toyota first anticipated, because FA20 was originally designed to be turbo charged from Subaru side. The result is a Production vehicle which costs more than the original plan from Toyota. They wanted it to be sub 22k

- The contract tide both up in a way that neither of them can use any power upgrade to the car. Until 5 year pass, they can do whatever. Which is 2015. Therefore, people assumes 2016 model will have BRZ STI.

- Tada san is sticking with his original plan, that he is currently developing an Inline 4 turbo charged for it, he is also testing the super capacitors as well. Tada san is expecting that the second gen 86 will be a complete development from toyota.

By all those rumors. Expect to see BRZ STI with 2.0 turbo charged, and FRS 2.5 by Scion. Expect STI to be north of 30k...and 2.5 FRS to be 28-30k. If you ever want to buy this ToyoBaru, the 2.5 FRS will be the last from toyota before it is gone forever

[Grishbok]

Look at what happened to the Sebring.

Was there a market? yes, albeit, an outrageously tiny one of people that thought everyone was laughing at their silly hat instead of the car, but no, it was the car we were all laughing at.

The car became a laughing stock of mediocrity. The convertible market is already full, theres not enough of a void to retool an assembly line for a cabrio.

The fiat 500 convertible/ vw beetle fill the entry level, then theres the miata, then theres the moo-stang, then the audi cabriolet. That pretty much sums up and satisfies any potential candidate to purchase a convertible.

Subaru is right, building a convertible would be a mistake.
They should instead turn their attention too....

TARGA TOP!!!!!!!