The $25k daily driver challenge - multi car review inside

[thill]

I think some of you are really being overly harsh. Here were his cons:

Cons-
* Poor Scion dealership attitude
* Least practical
* Terrible brakes
* Lethargic engine

I don't really see why some of you are getting so upset. Dealership experiences vary by region. I think we can all understand that.

Least practical, well yes, the OP is comparing the car to mostly hot hatches. Of course the FR-S/BRZ will be the least practical. If he were comparing it to a Miata, or S2000, or Cayman S, he would say the FR-S is more practical.

Terrible brakes. Like I said, I drove most of the cars on his list and don't get this one either. The twins don't have the best brakes in the world, but to me, they are more than adequate.

Lethargic engine. I don't know I would use the word lethargic, but I think it is a fair criticism to say that, compared to most of it's peers, the FR-S/BRZ could use a little more horsepower and, I think, more torque. I don't think the car needs to be a 300hp muscle car, but another 40hp and 40 ft lbs of torque would, IMHO, really improve the car.

That said, for a daily driver I really think the current engine is more than adequate. Yes, you need to work the engine to get the most out of it, but I also find this to be fun to do And I think MPG is an important consideration here. Again this car was not meant to be a big heavy 300hp+ monster. If that is what people want, buy a Mustang.

Face it, the FR-S/BRZ is a great car. There are very few flaws for a $25-30K car IMHO, but there are some. Every car has them. Nothing wrong with discussing both pros and cons of a car, vs only pros.

[industrial]

Nice review. Don't do the Acura TL. I traded in an Acura TL for my BRZ. I had it for less than 8 months. I'm not ready to be that old yet and you don't sound like you are either.

The TL is not sporty but it's fast. It's practical but the rear seats don't fold down. It's a nice highway cruiser but won't keep up with 335s. By the time I traded in that car, I hated that car.

[lionbacker54]

i am also surprised by the negativity. it seemed from the OP's review that of all the cars he tested, he liked the fr-s best. in fact, i think he even said that the decision now was fr-s or brz.

as for the brakes, one of the test drivers from motor trend actually found that to be the best thing about the brz at least. he did a day of autocrossing and was delighted that they hadn't faded at all. for what its worth

[bcj]

OP: Enjoyed the review and I would tend to agree with most of your opinions.
Some of the respondents are getting defensive, but I think you're handling it well and not escalating.

I drive on the public streets at rather pedestrian speeds, so the brakes have worked fine for me, even on long, technical mountain roads.

The final reason I eventually sold my 2L Alfa was the stiff clutch. It got to me at last.
I really like the feel of the 86 clutch.

Overall, I think the 86 makes an excellent package for my needs at present.
Hits most of the sweet spots for me without any overwhelming negatives.

[DylanFRS]

Thank you for this whole post OP, I thought it was a very refreshing review after so much "anything negative about the FRZ = trolling" attitude of the majority of this forum. Also, it is really nice to see there are a few people on here that are not RWD elitists. We know... "RWD Rules, FWD Drools"... get over yourselves...

I agree about the "lethargic" engine by the way. I would possibly use the word asthmatic though. It just seems like it is struggling for air in the top end. I think 200hp is plenty for the car and I am not under the impression that Subaru/Toyota owes us more power. But as engines go, the car just doesn't "feel " like it has 200hp. My brother's old 98 Prelude had 200hp and weighed significantly more but it felt faster to me and it was significantly more fun rowing through the gears from a stoplight. It never seems like it was just choking for air in the top end. I love my FR-S, but in a car that isn't winning any awards for track times so we all talk about how much we love how it "feels", I think the engine could use some work in that department.

[Re_Invention]

Originally Posted by DylanFRS

I agree about the "lethargic" engine by the way. I would possibly use the word asthmatic though... the car just doesn't "feel " like it has 200hp. My brother's old 98 Prelude had 200hp..

That is a superlative adjective to use! It describes it with greater accuracy, I'm gonna be using that from now on, thanks. And yes, completely agree; rsx type s, celica gt-s and prelude are cars I'm remembering with 200hp that felt thrilling, power delivery-wise. Apples to Oranges I suppose.

Originally Posted by thill

Least practical, well yes, the OP is comparing the car to mostly hot hatches. Of course the FR-S/BRZ will be the least practical. If he were comparing it to a Miata, or S2000, or Cayman S, he would say the FR-S is more practical.

Face it, the FR-S/BRZ is a great car. There are very few flaws for a $25-30K car IMHO, but there are some. Every car has them. Nothing wrong with discussing both pros and cons of a car, vs only pros.

Absolutely. I think it's an excellent car and will be representing that through my wallet, as most of you have already done. :happy0180:

Thanks for the positive posts, guys. Felt like I was taking crazy pills there for a second.

[CSG Mike]

While the FR-S/BRZ doesn't offer the room of a hatch (GTI, Focus, WRX), you can fit an amazing amount of stuff.

Personally, my choice would be a WRX from your list.

[Re_Invention]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

While the FR-S/BRZ doesn't offer the room of a hatch (GTI, Focus, WRX), you can fit an amazing amount of stuff.

Personally, my choice would be a WRX from your list.

Yeah, I put the rear seats down and was happy with the space - scuba gear, appraisal equipment, hiking gear, etc. will all fit without hassle.

Please, say more. That's my number two pick, tied with the Focus ST.

Also, great work with CSG. I follow you guys on facebook and am looking forward to checking out the shop in the upcoming year.

[thill]

Originally Posted by Re_Invention

Yeah, I put the rear seats down and was happy with the space - scuba gear, appraisal equipment, hiking gear, etc. will all fit without hassle.

Please, say more. That's my number two pick, tied with the Focus ST.

Also, great work with CSG. I follow you guys on facebook and am looking forward to checking out the shop in the upcoming year.

I was not a fan of the gearbox in the WRX in the non-STI version (STI WRX was a much better gearbox). The WRX also felt much heavier to me (which it is). Of course almost every car feels heavy next to the twins.

The other thing for me (which is clearly opinionated) is I just don't love the styling of the WRX. But this is a Suabaru thing, I have never been a fan of their exterior designs (love the BRZ, but that is more Toyota than Subaru).

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Re_Invention

Yeah, I put the rear seats down and was happy with the space - scuba gear, appraisal equipment, hiking gear, etc. will all fit without hassle.

Please, say more. That's my number two pick, tied with the Focus ST.

Also, great work with CSG. I follow you guys on facebook and am looking forward to checking out the shop in the upcoming year.

The Focus is a faster straightline car, by a hair. However, my choice for the WRX is actually for sheer practicality. The WRX engine is dated, but has a lot more mods you can potentially do to it. It also has a documented history, so you know exactly what to watch for. AWD is always a plus (although hardly necessary in SoCal) since I do snowboard quite a bit, and it's nice for low traction situations (dirt, snow, rain, etc.).

The WRX has a lot of cons through. The 5 speed tranny is complete weaksauce, and needs to be babied. The brakes are too small (esp with power mods), and the engine will overheat easily (again, with power mods, and no additional cooling). MPG is pretty bad.

Even then, the overall package is a great value. No other car offers AWD in that price range, with the level of performance the WRX offers.

I'm open to FWD, but not when I'm looking at a performance DD.

I've actually had a longtime battle between a Golf TDI and base model Impreza for a daily....

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Re_Invention

No, in fact this car drove remarkably better than the last FR-S I test drove. The engine still takes its time to rev and doesn't feel like 200 hp. The brakes are dismal. Long pedal travel with little feel, I don't care what the actual stopping distance is, Toyobaru forgot to dial it in during testing. Lines, fluid, cylinder brace and pads are the first things to get swapped/installed. But neither of those issues are new, they've been beaten to a pulp on this forum and else where. I just wrote out my test drive observations - I didn't go into it thinking 'well this can be taken care of aftermarket'. That's not a fair comparison and the manufacture should have gotten it right to begin with.

OK, so this is coming from someone who beat the OEM brakes to the point of failure (literally).

Mine never had long pedal travel (without boiling the fluid first that is) nor would I describe them as having little feel. They aren't the best brakes I've felt by a fair margin, but they are far from the worst.

Not saying you are wrong, but maybe the new OEM pads are contributing due to the lack of transfer layer, or someone seriously beat on them, or it had air in the lines like my car seemed to (in the rear only) from the factory. Just weird since that's not an issue most have experienced.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Re_Invention

I don't care if a car is front wheel drive or rear wheel drive. A fun car is a fun car

x10000000000000

And I agree those ST Recaros can be a bit tight, I spent a good bit of time in them and they seemed to get a bit more comfy over time which was the opposite of what I expected.. I figured I'd have back pain from them after awhile.

The only truely PAINFUL OEM seat I've ever used are the ones in an 04 Golf R32. Some love them, but I absolutely *hate* those seats.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by radroach

about your assessment of the brakes on fr-s: "The brakes are terrible", you have to really give them a really quick, hard push to get any performance out of them, they fade fast if you brake too long and easy

On the street you should never be able to generate enough heat to fade them, hell some here haven't done so with them on the track for hundreds of laps.

I wasn't that lucky on the track, but I never had one bit of issues with them on the street. :shrug:

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by BlueSTaR

Lol I read the post and I felt the OP is just here to troll

He joined in 2011, seems a bit too much pre-planning for a troll.... not to mention the lack of troll posts...