follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
86SPEED
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Scion FR-S Forum | Subaru BRZ Forum | Toyota 86 GT 86 Forum | AS1 Forum - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing

Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing Relating to suspension, chassis, and brakes. Sponsored by 949 Racing.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-30-2012, 02:18 PM   #15
yomny
Senior Member
 
yomny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: 2013 FRS Whiteout
Location: MIA
Posts: 1,545
Thanks: 557
Thanked 468 Times in 340 Posts
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by blu_ View Post
I believe there have been more than one independent shock dyno's which show the dampers are the same between the two cars. Only the spring rates are different.
"The Scion uses softer springs and stiffer shocks" Read this in a car and driver article located here third paragraph under chassis. Whatever the actual specs are i just love the way it handles from stock but i really do feel the need to drop the car lol, so lets see what the solution is.
yomny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2012, 02:29 PM   #16
blu_
Senior Member
 
blu_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Drives: SWP BRZ LTD
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 889
Thanks: 637
Thanked 170 Times in 106 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by yomny View Post
"The Scion uses softer springs and stiffer shocks" Read this in a car and driver article located here third paragraph under chassis. Whatever the actual specs are i just love the way it handles from stock but i really do feel the need to drop the car lol, so lets see what the solution is.
Yes, that info was passed around it seems in the reviews, but it looks like its not the case according to actual testing. I think a lot of info can be lost in translation when communicating with Japanese, as they don't seem to be as fluent in English as most western countries.

I completely agree with you though about being hesitant on altering the suspension, without being sure you aren't going to f something up.
blu_ is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to blu_ For This Useful Post:
steel86gt (09-26-2018)
Old 07-30-2012, 03:03 PM   #17
yomny
Senior Member
 
yomny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: 2013 FRS Whiteout
Location: MIA
Posts: 1,545
Thanks: 557
Thanked 468 Times in 340 Posts
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
That's good to know, it really didn't make much sense to change the specs of such similar automobiles . Hopefully we get some nice reviews of vendors with their products and how they perform. I'll like to keep this neutral/oversteer feeling that car has.
yomny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2012, 04:11 PM   #18
atledreier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: GT86 DGM
Location: Sandnes, Norway
Posts: 623
Thanks: 22
Thanked 197 Times in 110 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
The GT86 is even more understeer biased than the BRZ, sadly. Even then I haven'r read ay review stating that the GT86 is udersteery at all.
atledreier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 07:40 PM   #19
der_rainman
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: Subaru BRZ
Location: East Coast
Posts: 27
Thanks: 3
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Andrew - perhaps you can post the OEM spring rate for the BRZ and 86 in your original post. It would be helpful for those "getting started" to see what they get out of the box. I have already seen some manufacturers providing really bizarre spring rates for the BRZ/86 (softer rear than front).
der_rainman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 08:27 PM   #20
yomny
Senior Member
 
yomny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: 2013 FRS Whiteout
Location: MIA
Posts: 1,545
Thanks: 557
Thanked 468 Times in 340 Posts
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
Thats a good idea, I'm assuming the independent companies know what they are doing but the engineers I think knew best. The 2/3 relative ratio isn't anything like the 6/4 things we are seeing
__________________
GTX2867R, moto-tuned , tomei op , motiv fp , Invidia Q300 ti , Rota titan 17x9 +42 , nt555 255/40 , ST coilovers w/cascam , Hotchkis sways
yomny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2012, 05:26 PM   #21
Racecomp Engineering
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: 2016 BRZ, 2012 Paris Di2 & 2018 STI
Location: Severn, MD
Posts: 4,294
Thanks: 2,213
Thanked 5,151 Times in 2,199 Posts
Mentioned: 258 Post(s)
Tagged: 9 Thread(s)
Send a message via AIM to Racecomp Engineering
One more thing....

If we increase spring rates in the front and in the rear by the same factor, say 10%, this does not that the balance of the car will remain the same as stock. There are other issues at play here. The front and rear suspensions are very different and thus react differently to changes in spring rate (and ride height). So keeping the same "ratio" of spring rates front/rear does not necessarily mean you are keeping the same handling balance.

- Andrew
__________________
Suspension and brake specialists
www.racecompengineering.com

+1 (410) 846-5407
instagram:@racecompengineering @theapexfiles
Racecomp Engineering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 01:41 AM   #22
gonzo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: frs
Location: Cali
Posts: 374
Thanks: 351
Thanked 53 Times in 42 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by yomny View Post
I'm just afraid to really mess up the cars amazing handling characteristics, but it needs to be dropped lol. I'm seeing many companies coming out with 7/7,8/8 for front and rear rates and can't help but wonder if this will retain the stock character. The stock ride is nice and stiff, so maybe a set of coilovers with similar rates to stock(maybe a bit higher) would be great? I'll wait and see before choosing coilovers and spring rate, hopefully a few write up on different rates and their behaviors will come along
have you decided on springs yet? I also want a drop but want to keep the same feeling on the car
gonzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 11:29 AM   #23
yomny
Senior Member
 
yomny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: 2013 FRS Whiteout
Location: MIA
Posts: 1,545
Thanks: 557
Thanked 468 Times in 340 Posts
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
I acutally went with fortune auto coilovers, with a 7/7k rate on the swift springs that i got with the coilovers. They ride exceptionally well, for a daily driver and even better at the track.
__________________
GTX2867R, moto-tuned , tomei op , motiv fp , Invidia Q300 ti , Rota titan 17x9 +42 , nt555 255/40 , ST coilovers w/cascam , Hotchkis sways
yomny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 12:49 PM   #24
gmookher
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: VortechSC,BorlaEL,Perrin,GCRace
Location: HighHeatHighAltitudeAZ,USA
Posts: 2,254
Thanks: 458
Thanked 667 Times in 392 Posts
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
RCE, I am looking at your product again. I use a few brands on my other cars I know well, and trust, but you seem to have an angle on the subie world

let me just be sure I understand:
1-your coils are linear rate front and rear and both set at 250lb,
2-they are wound and manufactured domestically? where? major shop? ISO?
3-Can you tell me what the grade of steel is? what do these weigh each?
4-Do you offer any warranty over my life of ownership?
5-any reason why youre going soft overall on rates?

my end goal is EITHER
Racecomp Engineering Tarmac II coilovers or the KW3, but I need something now, and budget for the KW3 is not here yet, and I'm eager to see pricing on the tarmacs actually

thanks
gem
gmookher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 02:43 PM   #25
Racecomp Engineering
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: 2016 BRZ, 2012 Paris Di2 & 2018 STI
Location: Severn, MD
Posts: 4,294
Thanks: 2,213
Thanked 5,151 Times in 2,199 Posts
Mentioned: 258 Post(s)
Tagged: 9 Thread(s)
Send a message via AIM to Racecomp Engineering
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmookher View Post
RCE, I am looking at your product again. I use a few brands on my other cars I know well, and trust, but you seem to have an angle on the subie world

let me just be sure I understand:
1-your coils are linear rate front and rear and both set at 250lb,
2-they are wound and manufactured domestically? where? major shop? ISO?
3-Can you tell me what the grade of steel is? what do these weigh each?
4-Do you offer any warranty over my life of ownership?
5-any reason why youre going soft overall on rates?

my end goal is EITHER
Racecomp Engineering Tarmac II coilovers or the KW3, but I need something now, and budget for the KW3 is not here yet, and I'm eager to see pricing on the tarmacs actually

thanks
gem
1-your coils are linear rate front and rear and both set at 250lb
correct. the progressive portion is kind of like a helper spring to keep things in contact and smooth out small bumps but for handling purposes you should consider them as linear.

2-they are wound and manufactured domestically? where? major shop? ISO?
made in the good ol' USA by Eibach.

3-Can you tell me what the grade of steel is? what do these weigh each?
http://performance-suspension.eibach...ty_unsurpassed

I'll have to get back to you on weight.


4-Do you offer any warranty over my life of ownership?
Yes, lifetime to original owner.

5-any reason why youre going soft overall on rates?
We're actually much much firmer than others up front and a little softer than most in the rear. Honestly we were surprised so many others are sooooo soft up front. Everyone else is really soft. Like real soft. The way we did things, the rear can still "work" and you can put power down easily, while the front is controlled much better and the balance is great. The front roll center is better kept in check, front dynamic alignment is better maintained, and you get better turn-in. The front end of this suspension isn't exactly a double-wishbone with perfect geometry...it's a Subaru and does need some spring rate to be controlled. With sticky tires all those other super soft front springs are gonna be sloppy and move around too much (or just ride the bumpstops...causing spring rates to spike and loss of grip). For the rear, having the rates where they are is a great combination of performance, consistency and drivability (i.e. it's easy to drive fast), comfort, and durability of the shock. The front dampers have a bit more headroom in terms of valving than the rear to be honest.


We're really, really happy with the springs. We did a couple of revisions (we were extremely fortunate to have an early start prior to the car being released thanks to Subaru of America) and feel that these fit the bill perfectly for a FUN daily driver that still sees the track or autocrosses, and they work really well with stickier tires. Springs, bushings, alignment, BAM....perfect for most users. You could later upgrade to the T2s or V3s, sell the springs, and keep everything else. OR just add the Konis and maybe some swaybars. But I do think if you're looking for something now, getting the springs and the basic foundation (bushings + alignment stuff) while you wait for a nice coilover (or the Koni option) is an awesome way to go.

- Andrew
__________________
Suspension and brake specialists
www.racecompengineering.com

+1 (410) 846-5407
instagram:@racecompengineering @theapexfiles

Last edited by Racecomp Engineering; 10-23-2014 at 04:00 PM.
Racecomp Engineering is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Racecomp Engineering For This Useful Post:
flippy (06-10-2015), Fly Guy (12-04-2012), gmookher (10-23-2012)
Old 11-24-2012, 11:30 AM   #26
aaronosaurus
The data matters
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: WRBP BRZ
Location: Urbana, IL
Posts: 78
Thanks: 11
Thanked 21 Times in 16 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering View Post
Really this is one stepping stone for you to read more authoritative material on suspension.
Could you expand on what you consider good sources of information about suspension tuning? I've read Fred Phun's book, it covers a lot of the fundamentals but seems a bit dated(I don't really need to know how De Dion tubes work)
Amazon.com: How to Make Your Car Handle (9780912656465): Fred Puhn: Books Amazon.com: How to Make Your Car Handle (9780912656465): Fred Puhn: Books
aaronosaurus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2012, 11:47 AM   #27
iBRZ
fanboy
 
iBRZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Drives: SWP Limited BRZ AT
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 125
Thanks: 118
Thanked 60 Times in 30 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
have you decided on springs yet? I also want a drop but want to keep the same feeling on the car
Quote:
Originally Posted by yomny View Post
I'm just afraid to really mess up the cars amazing handling characteristics, but it needs to be dropped lol. I'm seeing many companies coming out with 7/7,8/8 for front and rear rates and can't help but wonder if this will retain the stock character. The stock ride is nice and stiff, so maybe a set of coilovers with similar rates to stock(maybe a bit higher) would be great? I'll wait and see before choosing coilovers and spring rate, hopefully a few write up on different rates and their behaviors will come along
^^THIS.

I want the RCE springs because I love the drop at .75" but I absolutely don't want to lose the tail happy nature of the stock BRZ. I don't want to change anything about the handling (maybe a little sharper). In an ideal world I could also flush up the wheels a bit AND have the drop without really losing the changing how it handles/slides...

The question is what's the magic formula?

Edited/

Last edited by iBRZ; 11-24-2012 at 11:02 PM.
iBRZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 12:06 PM   #28
GTB/ZR-1
Senior Member
 
GTB/ZR-1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Drives: '13 FR-S Firestorm--let's mod!!!
Location: Central, FL
Posts: 1,185
Thanks: 309
Thanked 444 Times in 258 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Maybe I'm overlooking it, but what are the spring stock rates on an FR-S?

Thx & Happy New Year, all!
GTB/ZR-1 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MotoIQ: Tech Look at FR-S Underside - Suspension, Chassis, Brakes, Differential oneday Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing 93 09-22-2017 10:47 AM
Is anyone going to motion car show? Pekingduck Southern California 15 05-20-2012 11:46 PM
Weird GT 86 factory spring rates in GT5? Spec-Al Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing 36 03-27-2012 02:30 PM
TRD 86 MSB (Motor Sports Basic) Race Packages Announced switchlanez Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 49 03-27-2012 08:31 AM
Crazy idea... the Rear Seat info ? MRZ415 Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 78 01-27-2012 01:19 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.