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Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing Relating to suspension, chassis, and brakes. Sponsored by 949 Racing.


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Old 04-12-2013, 05:57 PM   #15
Calum
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I just found this site. The info here is awesome. My .02 on this subject as a HOD Coach, Lapsinc instructor, and Blackhawk Farms Raceway instructor, who has logged almost 2000 track miles on my stock daily driven FRS, is that you do need different pads for the track, but not necessarily any more than that. Most of the damage I have seen on this site from damaged rotors at the track are actually from the driver imo.

When tracking and using good pads you have to manage your temps by getting on the brakes and then getting off of them. Duh, I know. Seriously, almost all of my students brake to lightly, too long. All of the energy of slowing the car turns to heat, but if you can do it quickly it focuses the heat on the surface of the pad and the surface of the rotor. These will immediately start to cool when you get off the brakes. Dragging 50' longer and lighter allows the heat to "soak" deeper into the rotor and through the pad material into the boat anchor cast iron calipers. Once everything is glowing hot from heat soak, your doomed.

Again this is my opinion with my car, but I have been able to absolutely harass Boss mustangs and Caymens on the track with stock tires and stock brakes with Carbotech xp8 pads on my FRS. Better tires would mean I could get on the brakes harder for a shorter period of time, thus reducing temps. I will only be thinking of BBK when I find another 50hp
This post is useless without video! I would love to watch that!
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:38 PM   #16
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This post is useless without video! I would love to watch that!

Sorry, been racing and teaching since the 90's, doesn't seem remarkable anymore. I'll have to get some rain day video for you. Should be able to humiliate Z06's and modded M3's in the rain....
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:50 PM   #17
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BTW I have had offline questions about the xp8's. They are perfect track pads. Although I use them on and off track (1/3 track miles) I wouldn't recommend them for a daily driver unless you want to put up with excessive squealing on the street. (I'm usually too tired to care enough to change them) If you wanted to use xp8's I would use Carbotech's 1521 bobcat compound on the street so you would not spoil the rotors with non-ceramic compounds.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:00 PM   #18
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This post is useless without video! I would love to watch that!

Sorry, been racing and teaching since the 90's, doesn't seem remarkable anymore. I'll have to get some rain day video for you. Should be able to humiliate Z06's and modded M3's in the rain....
Is this against drivers of similar skill level? Either way that's still impressive to me.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:33 PM   #19
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Is this against drivers of similar skill level? Either way that's still impressive to me.
I haven't met many people who could actually drive a Z06 or modded M3 consistently at its limits, that attend HPDE events even in the expert group. Add rain and the beautiful balance of the FRS shines while the awesome performance of track stars tends to turn into fear.

I'm just a guy driving the wheels off of a great little sports car.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:35 PM   #20
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Is this against drivers of similar skill level? Either way that's still impressive to me.
I haven't met many people who could actually drive a Z06 or modded M3 consistently at its limits, that attend HPDE events even in the expert group. Add rain and the beautiful balance of the FRS shines while the awesome performance of track stars tends to turn into fear.

I'm just a guy driving the wheels off of a great little sports car.

HPDE is street car track days FYI
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Old 04-12-2013, 09:00 PM   #21
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JRitt, Essex offers excelent advice on brakes here. I'm only planning driving on the street but in a spirited fashion. The stock brakes seemed a bit soft to me. I added a master cylinder brace and stainless steel lines in that order so I could assess whatever gains they afforded. I can report that the stainless lines transformed the brakes. One can now really get into the brakes and they act RIGHT NOW. It's one of those $100 investments that really makes the FR-S/BRZ into a significantly better vehicle. Money well spent!
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JRitt (04-14-2013)
Old 05-28-2013, 10:09 AM   #22
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I had someone on the Corvette forum ask about drilled vs. slotted vs. plain brake discs, and which one is the toughest on pads. I threw together a summary of the merits of each:

Generally speaking, the more leading edges you have on the face pattern of the disc, the more places the pads have to 'grab' the disc face, and the more pad wear they will cause. It's a tradeoff...more leading edges= more bite, less leading edges= less pad bite.

So in order of pad wear, from the most pad wear to least pad wear, it would look something like this:

Drilled discs
Slotted discs with lots of leading edges ( X pattern, J Hook, etc.)
Slotted discs with straight slots
Plain face discs (without any slots or drill holes)

That said, we're talking about a modest increase in pad wear as we move up the ladder from the bottom. In other words, I wouldn't expect a drilled disc to wear a pad twice as fast as a plain face disc. It's really tough to attach a number or order of magnitude to it, so I'm not going to make anything up and pretend it's fact.

The hierarchy above holds true for noise as well. The more aggressive drill or slot patterns will create more scraping or whirring noises than a plain-faced disc. As others have mentioned, drilled discs are generally not the best performance option, as they are more prone to cracking. They look good, but stick with some form of slot pattern if you plan to run them hard.

Summary:
Drilled- looks good on the street but highest NVH, not recommended for track use due to a propensity to crack.

Slotted discs with lots of leading edges- Good on street, and best for track. Offer high pad bite with reasonable amount of noise and NVH on street. A carefully executed design such as the AP Racing J Hook distributes heat evenly throughout the disc and helps prevent disc cracking and uneven pad deposits.

Slotted discs with straight slots- Slightly less noise on street vs. an aggressive slot pattern, but also a little less pad bite. Slots that go to the outer edge of disc are bad because they create stress risers/cracks. Also, standard straight slot patterns tend to cause temperature gradients (hot spots around the slots and cool spots in between them on disc face), which can contribute to cracks and or pad deposits/judder.

Plain face discs (without any slots or drill holes)-
Lowest NVH for street use, but less pad bite on track vs. any of the slotted discs. More even heat distribution than a straight slot disc, and less prone to uneven pad deposits/judder.

Choosing which type is best for you is all about tradeoffs and what your goals are with your car.
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Old 10-13-2013, 10:12 AM   #23
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Awesome guide.

Sent from my Q10
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Old 12-20-2013, 04:19 AM   #24
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Awesome reading. Pretty common knowledge (I would think anyway) but still very good information.

I've seen far too many guys cook their brakes on spirited mountain runs (some downhill) by just sitting on them for extended periods of time. Get on them hard, get off and be on your way. When you see brake lights on for far too long, it's not long before you can smell em cookin from behind them.

The stock brakes on the FR-S are DEFINITELY soft/mushy. A Grimmspeed master cylinder brace went a long way to improving the pedal feel and reducing the pedal travel needed to stop the car.

With that being said, I had a Tarox BBK on my R32 which I absolutely loved. Amazing feel, stopping power and tons of braking confidence. Arguably overkill but hard to tell. I don't think I will go BBK on this car, yet. Doesn't seem necessary with the current power levels. Definitely looking into an upgraded set of pads (project mu?), rotors (dba t3's?) and some rbf 660 in the near future though.

Thread deserves a sticky. Far too many suspension threads and not nearly enough brake-related (often overlooked imo) threads in this forum.

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Old 12-20-2013, 04:23 AM   #25
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Posts like this are why I like this site. So much knowledge and always something anyone can learn something new.
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Old 12-20-2013, 09:04 AM   #26
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Awesome reading. Pretty common knowledge (I would think anyway) but still very good information.

I've seen far too many guys cook their brakes on spirited mountain runs (some downhill) by just sitting on them for extended periods of time. Get on them hard, get off and be on your way. When you see brake lights on for far too long, it's not long before you can smell em cookin from behind them.

The stock brakes on the FR-S are DEFINITELY soft/mushy. A Grimmspeed master cylinder brace went a long way to improving the pedal feel and reducing the pedal travel needed to stop the car.

With that being said, I had a Tarox BBK on my R32 which I absolutely loved. Amazing feel, stopping power and tons of braking confidence. Arguably overkill but hard to tell. I don't think I will go BBK on this car, yet. Doesn't seem necessary with the current power levels. Definitely looking into an upgraded set of pads (project mu?), rotors (dba t3's?) and some rbf 660 in the near future though.

Thread deserves a sticky. Far too many suspension threads and not nearly enough brake-related (often overlooked imo) threads in this forum.

Thanks...glad it was helpful! Since I wrote this, I've seen many of the topics addressed come up over and over in this forum. I also get TONS of pm's and emails on these topics. It seems like common knowledge to someone that's been doing this stuff a while, but there are a lot of folks who just haven't yet gone down this path. That's okay though, you gotta learn sometime.
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Old 12-21-2013, 12:25 PM   #27
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Posts like this are why I like this site. So much knowledge and always something anyone can learn something new.
Agreed, normally I have to tell people the reason I am always reading so much on the forums is because you have to read page after page, post after post of useless garble just to find the one or two bits of useful information. But when you find that information, it makes it worth it.

Thank you @JRitt for putting your thoughts together to help make our decisions a little easier.
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Old 12-21-2013, 01:29 PM   #28
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anyone have feedback on the performance of swapping out with the 2006/7 wrx calipers?
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