Cosworth SC build...

[killboy]

It is our understanding from talking to the Cosworth reps that this unit is under-driven to about half of it's mechanical capacity to keep it safe for a stock setup...Cosworth tested for something like 50,000 miles to ensure reliability and I respect that. I think a lot of people comparing this to other FI setups are missing the point of "area under the curve" usable power as opposed to peak HP and they're overlooking the reliability aspect as well.

That said, has anyone upgraded engine internals and swapped out the pulley to overdrive the S/C unit? All it should take is forged pistons, rods, clutch upgrade and you should be able to push 400hp or more from this thing theoretically.

[350matt]

I don't think the kit has been out long enough for that to happen, I look forward to it though

think you might need some bigger injectors and better fuel pump too on that list...

[Freeman]

I'd love to see someone max out this blower. Ive seen people saying "cosworth said 380 crank hp", but nothing to back it up.

[killboy]

Originally Posted by 350matt

I don't think the kit has been out long enough for that to happen, I look forward to it though

think you might need some bigger injectors and better fuel pump too on that list...

That is our plan with the kit, but it will be later in the year.

I thought about the injector/pump thing, but with the 8 injector setup we have, my tuner thinks they may not need upgrading unless you're pushing over 400hp or so. We will be careful to watch that though, or see what other people have done if someone else pushes it up there before we do. He really digs the Direct+Port Injection...says it opens up some nice tuning potential.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by Freeman

I'd love to see someone max out this blower. Ive seen people saying "cosworth said 380 crank hp", but nothing to back it up.

We'd have to wait till the Cosworth Stage 3 comes out. I have a feeling that will be internals and the such.

[killboy]

Originally Posted by weederr33

We'd have to wait till the Cosworth Stage 3 comes out. I have a feeling that will be internals and the such.

I wouldn't say *We'd* have to wait. You might.

[Uplink]

Originally Posted by Ernie L

The exhaust sounds glorious....A bit to loud for city or dense suburban housing tracks I would imagine. Nothing but trees around me so ....

This is something I was curious about. While the exhaust sounds absolutely amazing if you were using it on a track or at AX, it's a little over the top for a residential DD (especially if you have to warm the car up at 7am for work). From what I gather, it's an uncatted header plus a full 3" from the OP back.
Personally, for DD I love the sound of the HKS MP back Spec L. Unfortunately that's only a 2 1/2".

Cosworth says the full 2.3 kit should make 280hp. I wonder if there's a significant loss using a 2.5" exhaust or if the 3" is overengineered to flow for their eventual v3.x kit with the claimed 380hp. If the later is the case, then there shouldn't be much, if any loss using the HKS system. In fact, maybe even a small boost in torque with the slightly smaller pathway. Cake+eating it too, ya know?

[Ernie L]

Originally Posted by Uplink

This is something I was curious about. While the exhaust sounds absolutely amazing if you were using it on a track or at AX, it's a little over the top for a residential DD (especially if you have to warm the car up at 7am for work). From what I gather, it's an uncatted header plus a full 3" from the OP back.
Personally, for DD I love the sound of the HKS MP back Spec L. Unfortunately that's only a 2 1/2".

Cosworth says the full 2.3 kit should make 280hp. I wonder if there's a significant loss using a 2.5" exhaust or if the 3" is overengineered to flow for their eventual v3.x kit with the claimed 380hp. If the later is the case, then there shouldn't be much, if any loss using the HKS system. In fact, maybe even a small boost in torque with the slightly smaller pathway. Cake+eating it too, ya know?

I was thinking the same thing about the reason for the 3 inch.
..I have decided today to search for another some what more street friendlier axle/cat back.

Once I put the cosworth header on it became unusable as a DD..... but damn it sounds good !!!!! it was fun for a couple of days

...2.5 inch would seem more than adequate. As an experiment today I slapped the stock muffler back on...not good..not good at all...sounds like ass when accelerating....almost like its tearing itself apart...maybe a q300

[Uplink]

Originally Posted by Ernie L

I was thinking the same thing about the reason for the 3 inch.
..I have deceived today to search for another some what more street friendlier axle/cat back.

Once I put the cosworth header on it became unusable as a DD..... but damn it sounds good !!!!! it was fun for a couple of days

...2.5 inch would seem more than adequate. As an experiment today I slapped the stock muffler back on...not good..not good at all...sounds like ass when accelerating....almost like its tearing itself apart...maybe a q300

In most cases, it seems the header is the 'breaking point' for the exhaust note. [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdVCUKEqFLw"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdVCUKEqFLw[/ame] The catback starts at about :30. After that they install the header (still with factory mid-pipe) and the sound immediately got raspy.

Have you tried using your factory header with the Cosworth/Nameless OP back? That might be a decent sound without too much restriction in flow. Another option is going with a catted header. Bump up the flow while dulling some of the rasp.

As far as overall flow and power, if it's an apples to apples comparison, we might be able to deduce from the other FI kit dynos out there what size exhaust can support what power levels.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by Ernie L

I was thinking the same thing about the reason for the 3 inch.
..I have deceived today to search for another some what more street friendlier axle/cat back.

Once I put the cosworth header on it became unusable as a DD..... but damn it sounds good !!!!! it was fun for a couple of days

...2.5 inch would seem more than adequate. As an experiment today I slapped the stock muffler back on...not good..not good at all...sounds like ass when accelerating....almost like its tearing itself apart...maybe a q300

I've got a Q300. You'd like it. Keeps things quiet, yet can sound aggressive too!

[ajc209]

Originally Posted by killboydotcom

It is our understanding from talking to the Cosworth reps that this unit is under-driven to about half of it's mechanical capacity to keep it safe for a stock setup...Cosworth tested for something like 50,000 miles to ensure reliability and I respect that. I think a lot of people comparing this to other FI setups are missing the point of "area under the curve" usable power as opposed to peak HP and they're overlooking the reliability aspect as well.

That said, has anyone upgraded engine internals and swapped out the pulley to overdrive the S/C unit? All it should take is forged pistons, rods, clutch upgrade and you should be able to push 400hp or more from this thing theoretically.

No wanting to hijack the thread but just my 0.02 cents:

Cosworth confirmed to me they did 1000 nurburgring simulation miles on the engine dyno and 10,000 miles of the road testing as part of their "validation" on the stage 2 package.

The stock injectors are not good for much more than 330HP crank.

Inorder to make the Supercharger spin faster they need to fit a smaller pulley, but to do that reliably you WILL need a thicker drive belt and pulleys to avoid slipping.

I believe cosworth plan to bring out a bottom end for stage 3. They confirmed that the first stage 3 will be ~330HP.

I imagine it will go like this:

Stage 3.1 : bottom end + oiling mods (Oil pressure is low on these cars) + new pulleys and belt + tune ~330HP

Stage 3.2 : all of the above + injectors + Fuel pumb + tune ~380HP

Nice convienient 50HP jumps in power.

[350matt]

Originally Posted by Uplink

In most cases, it seems the header is the 'breaking point' for the exhaust note.

The catback starts at about :30. After that they install the header (still with factory mid-pipe) and the sound immediately got raspy.

Have you tried using your factory header with the Cosworth/Nameless OP back? That might be a decent sound without too much restriction in flow. Another option is going with a catted header. Bump up the flow while dulling some of the rasp.

As far as overall flow and power, if it's an apples to apples comparison, we might be able to deduce from the other FI kit dynos out there what size exhaust can support what power levels.

I'd be careful of just mixing and matching exhaust parts, when I last spoke to Cosworth about this kit, they confirmed that they do a 2.1 spec tune to suit running with the stock header and the catback but this costs about 10-12Bhp

So I'd imagine that they've had to pull some spark out to cope with the increased back pressure of the stock header and over pipe

that said this would probably mean you could run any cat-back you wanted with this 2.1 tune

[TheRoadWarrior]

Good info here: http://www.cosworth.com/products/pow...package-range/

and this shows the effect the header is having. It's a solid mid-range boost, +50nm at 4000rpm from the header will definitely be noticeable, just a shame it seems a little loud with it fitted.



edit: the header (+tune) is the only difference for stage 1.3.

If you're running the supercharger, catback and mid pipe but not the header (i.e. stage 1.2 + superchager) do they have a tune for that I wonder?

[kuczynskika]

I would be interested in a 1.2 + supercharger tune. I'm currently running just the stage 0.1 catback and that alone is almost too loud for daily driving and freeway cruising at 70mph and 3100ish rpms. Kinda lukewarm about going all the way up to the stage 1.3 header. Hands down best sounding exhaust out there tho! Turns heads on the street.