follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Scion FR-S Forum | Subaru BRZ Forum | Toyota 86 GT 86 Forum | AS1 Forum - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Mechanical Maintenance (Oil, Fluids, Break-In, Servicing)

Mechanical Maintenance (Oil, Fluids, Break-In, Servicing) Everything related to the mechanical maintenance of the FR-S and BRZ


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-14-2018, 01:29 AM   #1
Toyarzee
Shibby!
 
Toyarzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Drives: '14 White FR-S, '01 turbo mini taco
Location: Costa Mesa, CA
Posts: 644
Thanks: 834
Thanked 576 Times in 268 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Multiple start failures on e85 when cold

Trying to start when < 50*F always results in a struggle, stumble, and stall. This morning it was 39*F and took me 7 tries to start the car, some of which sounded horrible. What kind of damage am I doing to my motor besides premature wear on the starter?

Sometimes it tries for a good while before finally cutting out. Should I just give in and switch to 91 during the winter? Running e85 using oft 4.03 ots tune, and haven't tried mixing in 91 but I dont always have time or patience. I will look forward to flexfuel in my future i suppose... if that works well with OFT

Thanks
Toyarzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2018, 01:41 AM   #2
Somerandom18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Drives: 2017 manual BRZ
Location: USA
Posts: 456
Thanks: 308
Thanked 172 Times in 108 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Been running Wayne's OFT e85 ROM and haven't had an issue so far starting down to 25f (as cold as it has gotten so far this year). Last year I had the same struggles as you with OFT's e85 ROM.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Somerandom18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2018, 01:59 AM   #3
Spuds
The Dictater
 
Spuds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Drives: '13 Red Scion FRS
Location: PA, USA
Posts: 2,281
Thanks: 4,222
Thanked 1,596 Times in 1,026 Posts
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Not to be that guy, but you did identify both the problem and the solution. It's only November, I would guess it's going to get colder and therefore more difficult to start so I'd make the switch.

Another option if you want something to try:
You should be able to add some gasoline to reduce ethanol content if there isn't a station that lowers it for winter anyway. I think the ecu should be able to adapt fairly quickly, though it wouldn't hurt to do some modifications to the tune. At that point though, is it really worth it?
Spuds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2018, 02:29 AM   #4
Toyarzee
Shibby!
 
Toyarzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Drives: '14 White FR-S, '01 turbo mini taco
Location: Costa Mesa, CA
Posts: 644
Thanks: 834
Thanked 576 Times in 268 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somerandom18 View Post
Been running Wayne's OFT e85 ROM and haven't had an issue so far starting down to 25f (as cold as it has gotten so far this year). Last year I had the same struggles as you with OFT's e85 ROM.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
So what's different about the tune that helps?

Also, still wondering if I'm mucking up the motor with these start failures?
Toyarzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2018, 08:29 AM   #5
Grady
Senior Member
 
Grady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Drives: BRZ Yellow
Location: Dallas
Posts: 337
Thanks: 43
Thanked 250 Times in 135 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyarzee View Post
So what's different about the tune that helps?

Also, still wondering if I'm mucking up the motor with these start failures?
Failed starts will leave some fuel in the cylinders. This will wash out some of the lubricating oil. Is it harder/more wear on the engine than a clean start... Yes. Is it going to damage you engine... NO!

A tune makes all the difference! Amount of fuel and timing adjustment. I would adjust the tune, or as previously stated put gas in it to shoot for around E50 to see if that helps.
Grady is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Grady For This Useful Post:
Toyarzee (11-14-2018)
Old 11-14-2018, 08:39 PM   #6
Breadman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Drives: 2017 BRZ w/PP
Location: Pa
Posts: 256
Thanks: 18
Thanked 57 Times in 45 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
ive started cutting my e85 and my phone said im running e42 this tank. no problems starting it up at 30f this morning
Breadman is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Breadman For This Useful Post:
Toyarzee (11-15-2018)
Old 11-16-2018, 12:43 AM   #7
Toyarzee
Shibby!
 
Toyarzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Drives: '14 White FR-S, '01 turbo mini taco
Location: Costa Mesa, CA
Posts: 644
Thanks: 834
Thanked 576 Times in 268 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Added 1 gal of 91 in my near full tank and it really does make a difference. Maybe I really can stay on the corn juice, thanks guys
Toyarzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2018, 09:18 AM   #8
Breadman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Drives: 2017 BRZ w/PP
Location: Pa
Posts: 256
Thanks: 18
Thanked 57 Times in 45 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyarzee View Post
Added 1 gal of 91 in my near full tank and it really does make a difference. Maybe I really can stay on the corn juice, thanks guys

you can do the math... .1/12.5+.85*11.5/12.5=.79 if you are running true e85 and the 91 has 10% e like it should thats what you are at. so you essentially did nothing except lower the octane rating a bit.
Breadman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2018, 09:45 AM   #9
ermax
Senior Member
 
ermax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Drives: 2013 FR-S 6MT Raven
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 1,280
Thanks: 373
Thanked 934 Times in 565 Posts
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
There is a post somewhere around here with some tuning changes you can make to fix the cold start problems. The guy who posted his tables said he can start at 21F. I will dig up the post because I'm in the same boat. It was 41F in Florida this morning.
ermax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2018, 09:51 AM   #10
ermax
Senior Member
 
ermax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Drives: 2013 FR-S 6MT Raven
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 1,280
Thanks: 373
Thanked 934 Times in 565 Posts
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Here it is:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=40
ermax is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ermax For This Useful Post:
Toyarzee (11-17-2018)
Old 11-16-2018, 06:48 PM   #11
alphasaur
friendly
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Drives: 17' 86
Location: NY
Posts: 72
Thanks: 68
Thanked 35 Times in 26 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Just get a flex kit and do 50/50 blend. You'll keep the majority of the benefit of eth and still have the perks of petrol
__________________
Seek comfort in discomfort.
alphasaur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2018, 09:22 PM   #12
Chuckls
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Drives: brz tS 086/500
Location: Midwest
Posts: 125
Thanks: 2
Thanked 67 Times in 34 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I dont understand how people have such issues. 25* here on my OFT v4 tune and I can start just fine.
Chuckls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2018, 12:33 AM   #13
steve99
Senior Member
 
steve99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Drives: FT86
Location: Australia
Posts: 7,013
Thanks: 942
Thanked 4,395 Times in 2,621 Posts
Mentioned: 478 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckls View Post
I dont understand how people have such issues. 25* here on my OFT v4 tune and I can start just fine.



Depends a lot on the ethanol percent of your e85


60% ethanol will start pretty easy
85% will be difficult even with modified cranking tables once you get down arround 32F


Its physics ethanol jist doesnt vaporise at low temps like petrol


Google flash points of gasoline and ethanol
steve99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2018, 04:15 AM   #14
Chuckls
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Drives: brz tS 086/500
Location: Midwest
Posts: 125
Thanks: 2
Thanked 67 Times in 34 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve99 View Post
Depends a lot on the ethanol percent of your e85


60% ethanol will start pretty easy
85% will be difficult even with modified cranking tables once you get down arround 32F


Its physics ethanol jist doesnt vaporise at low temps like petrol


Google flash points of gasoline and ethanol
The one station I go to has a lowest value of 71% at any time.
Chuckls is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Car doesn't start, multiple "clicking" when trying to start tracerit Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB 22 01-27-2017 03:56 PM
Cold Start Help Kayysonie Software Tuning 39 03-31-2016 11:35 PM
Cold start JG Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 8 08-29-2015 02:55 AM
E85 cold start Turdinator Software Tuning 8 08-29-2014 11:12 AM
White Smoke cold start up in Cold Weather (turbo cars) whitefrs Forced Induction 17 09-25-2013 05:05 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.