Positives & Negatives On Kraftwerks Supercharger vs Jackson Racing Kits

[CSG David]

To OP, please review the available threads. The stickies are available for research purposes. As mentioned, even Innovate and turbo kids have discussed the pros and cons of the comparable kits. For the record, Koenigsegg uses a twin charged Rotrex setup and serpentine system. Last time I remembered they haven't had a belt snapping issue, but you can inquire into KW as to why they are better than a car manufacturer.

[CSG Mike]

Just a FYI @glamcem, we also offer the KW kit, but when anyone asks our honest opinion, or asks for just the facts, they're gonna get an honest open and just the facts.

I understand that at the end of the day, you want to validate your purchasing decision. We do too! We validate ours with hard data and empirical evidence. "Could do this", "maybe that", "coming soon", and "trust us" doesn't fly with us. You're grasping at strings with a "potential catastrophic failure" verses a proven, documented cogged belt failures.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Just a FYI @glamcem, we also offer the KW kit, but when anyone asks our honest opinion, or asks for just the facts, they're gonna get an honest open and just the facts.

I understand that at the end of the day, you want to validate your purchasing decision. We do too! We validate ours with hard data and empirical evidence. "Could do this", "maybe that", "coming soon", and "trust us" doesn't fly with us. You're grasping at strings with a "potential catastrophic failure" verses a proven, documented cogged belt failures.

I don't even try to validate anything and am not affiliated with anyone leaking engine oil is a failure that will potentially cause a bigger failure in my book..

that "hard data and empirical evidence" sounded very cool , ummm very "scientific"

[Poodles]

Millions of older vehicles on the road leak oil, it's not a catastrophic failure.


As with any modification or repair, you should be testing to make sure there aren't any leaks after install.

[dp1]

Originally Posted by glamcem

I don't even try to validate anything and am not affiliated with anyone leaking engine oil is a failure that will potentially cause a bigger failure in my book..

that "hard data and empirical evidence" sounded very cool , ummm very "scientific"

@glamcem, since you quoted my post from the JRSC owners thread...

My latest response was "Agree that it could have been a big deal but it wasn't and these kinds of issues seem to be very rare with this kit. Given how many issues I had with the shop that moved these and many other parts from my previous car, I wouldn't be surprised if that played a part, but who knows...at least I'm in good hands with @moto-mike and none of the issues caused more problems than an inconvenience and money to fix." Nothing has been leaking for over a month of daily use and pretty wild (cold) ambient temp swings in north-east.

JR shipped the replacement parts asap to help me address the issue. I talked to Oscar Jr over the phone a couple of times in the last year or so, and for quite a while...wow...thumbs up for friendly, knowledgeable, superb customer service and for taking the approach to test for a year in varying conditions before releasing product.

I didn't share my issue to bash JR/product, but to share known facts the same way we all should so that we all benefit in the long run. If I saw a worrying trend of JR oil cooler kits leaking, I would swap mine for another product in a heartbeat, and I'm not doing that.

I love this car with the JRSC SC, JR oil cooler, moto-east tune and many other mods - my conclusion in the other thread was "would buy again without hesitation". I have 13k miles with the kit, use the car as daily and for ax/track in the north-east.

Disclaimer: I know nothing about the KW kit and cannot offer a comparison.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by Poodles

Millions of older vehicles on the road leak oil, it's not a catastrophic failure.


As with any modification or repair, you should be testing to make sure there aren't any leaks after install.

Wrong, I have a friend who lost his engine due to oil leak,
Thing to keep in mind, high performance, boosted engine oil leak (especially those who see track miles) and a old beater car that leaks oil from the head gasket two very different things.. With that said, it still may cause a fire.. If not cause a motor failure..

My point is every aftermarket FI kit will have issues at some point, big or small issues, it's not all red roses.. Saying X kit is flawless plain absurd, even Cosworth had many issues with their SC kit in the past which caused many engine failures..
Another thing, margin of error is Already small with Rotrex based kits(unlike turbo kits or other SC units) and the difference between these two kits are in details(belts, upgrade ability.. Etc) , they both utilize the same exact Centrifugal blower, with different brackets and IC pipe, so saying one is far better from the other is also misleading, and funny

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by glamcem

Wrong, I have a friend who lost his engine due to oil leak,
Thing to keep in mind, high performance, boosted engine oil leak (especially those who see track miles) and a old beater car that leaks oil from the head gasket two very different things.. With that said, it still may cause a fire.. If not cause a motor failure..

My point is every aftermarket FI kit will have issues at some point, big or small issues, it's not all red roses.. Saying X kit is flawless plain absurd, even Cosworth had many issues with their SC kit in the past which caused many engine failures..
Another thing, margin of error is Already small with Rotrex based kits(unlike turbo kits or other SC units) and the difference between these two kits are in details(belts, upgrade ability.. Etc) , they both utilize the same exact Centrifugal blower, with different brackets and IC pipe, so saying one is far better from the other is also misleading, and funny

Please look at the title of this thread. People have listed the pros and cons of each kit as asked. You have gone defensive because the kit you bought happens to have more issues. In a defensive move you decided to bring in an isolated oil leak on an oil cooler kit.

"People bashing KW" is all in your head. People in this thread are not bashing but giving their honest feedback and stating the accumulated data on each kit to date. CSG prefers the JRSC because they have seen JR's RnD and testing and see it on many track going cars (some of which compete in the 86cup) with no issues. They have seen KW attempt to test their kit on track and fail. If I were CSG I would feel the same way considering their experiences thus far.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

Please look at the title of this thread. People have listed the pros and cons of each kit as asked. You have gone defensive because the kit you bought happens to have more issues. In a defensive move you decided to bring in an isolated oil leak on an oil cooler kit.

WHAT?? why would I go defensive? what's in it for me? that doesn't really make any sense, why would I defend something that I paid $4k for? I paid the full price for my kit, I am not a seller/vendor, I don't have any sponsorship..so I am not affiliated in any way and I already posted the pictures of the snapped belt (which was my fault that the tension was not within the specs).. I didn't have any issues with my kit and I've attended at least 7-8 track days with the kit on it..how many KW cars have you seen at the track? I search but don't see others besides me

and I don't see pros and cons about the JR kit, all I hear the same "look this is flawless" echo..which is not true and more importantly, it sometimes comes from the people who don't own any of these kits!! that's the problem of the internet, too much echo/noise based on non-first hand experience

"People bashing KW" is all in your head. People in this thread are not bashing but giving their honest feedback and stating the accumulated data on each kit to date. CSG prefers the JRSC because they have seen JR's RnD and testing and see it on many track going cars (some of which compete in the 86cup) with no issues. They have seen KW attempt to test their kit on track and fail. If I were CSG I would feel the same way considering their experiences thus far.

that's still not a fact, it's an opinion, until I see real, quantitative data comparing both kits in the same controlled environment, showing one kit is superior to other , I won't be convinced...(side note I deal with data every day as Data Analyst/Statistician I would love to see that "accumulated data" )

[LucidMomentum]

Originally Posted by glamcem

that's still not a fact, it's an opinion, until I see real, quantitative data comparing both kits in the same controlled environment, showing one kit is superior to other , I won't be convinced...(side note I deal with data every day as Data Analyst/Statistician I would love to see that "accumulated data" )

Is the report on the forums not quantitative enough?

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55705

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by LucidMomentum

Is the report on the forums not quantitative enough?

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55705

That's nothing but a bunch of dyno graphs overlapped, what does that tell us ? Real world experience is way different and JR and KW both did pretty good in department, I've already read that thread and this one too
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1624913

[LucidMomentum]

Originally Posted by glamcem

That's nothing but a bunch of dyno graphs overlapped, what does that tell us ? Real world experience is way different and JR and KW both did pretty good in department, I've already read that thread and this one too
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1624913

There's also the chart of user issues / complaints with certain kits, at the bottom of the first thread. I thought you said you read it?

Originally Posted by tendogy
To improve this supercharger comparison I recently read through the Innovate and Kraftwerks owners threads, as well as the Vortech and Jackson Racing discussion threads. I aimed to compile all the owner-reported issues to try to gain some understanding into a few questions. The following chart shows the number of owner-reported issues-per-month from those threads as of March 2014.



The compilation data and more links are in the following posts:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=198

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=202

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=212

Look, I'm not saying that KW isn't a good choice. I just think you're trying to be belligerent for no real reason other than you own a KW kit.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by LucidMomentum

There's also the chart of user issues / complaints with certain kits, at the bottom of the first thread. I thought you said you read it?



Look, I'm not saying that KW isn't a good choice. I just think you're trying to be belligerent for no real reason other than you own a KW kit.

I know those charts, I have read possibly every thread about these kits, they are simply broscience and doesn't tell us anything us besides a few missing bolts and a few broken belts which was already discussed.. Like I said I am not saying there wasn't any hiccups with the KW kit or any other kit.. I think you're missing the point I've mentioned above

[lastexile1987]

Originally Posted by glamcem

I know those charts, I have read possibly every thread about these kits, they are simply broscience and doesn't tell us anything us besides a few missing bolts and a few broken belts which was already discussed.. Like I said I am not saying there wasn't any hiccups with the KW kit or any other kit.. I think you're missing the point I've mentioned above

And so far you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. You have been given personal accounts and collected data, even in the form of graphs, but still want to argue. CSG mike and David have both added their opinions and they are, arguably, the most knowledgeable out of any of us.

Bring in a kraftwerks expert or dealer to give the "other" side to this argument and maybe you will get more credit. Until then, I'll just have to ignore you and I'd recommend everyone else do the same...

[LucidMomentum]

Originally Posted by glamcem

I know those charts, I have read possibly every thread about these kits, they are simply broscience and doesn't tell us anything us besides a few missing bolts and a few broken belts which was already discussed.. Like I said I am not saying there wasn't any hiccups with the KW kit or any other kit.. I think you're missing the point I've mentioned above

The point that you're ignoring all the data we have on these kits because they're just a bunch of "graphs" and "broscience"?

What kind of data are you looking for?

I understand your point, that neither the JR and KW kits are perfect kits, and they function very similarly. I don't get why we keep cluttering up this thread with pedantry.