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Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


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Old 12-16-2019, 10:15 PM   #15
AnalogMan
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Wow! Thank you very much for all the great comments! I appreciate all the information, thoughts, and education.

I know the biggest gain would come from deleting the cat (whether in the stock header or aftermarket). Unfortunately, the emissions regulations and inspections in my area mean that I have to keep it. I’m not even completely sure if it would pass with the aftermarket cat on a catted header, or with a tune (which is why I’m leaning to OFT so I can reset the tune at inspection time).

I realize this car isn’t a V8 torque monster muscle car (I have a Mustang GT if I feel the need to yank out tree stumps). The car in its stock configuration is pretty satisfying to drive as is. I don’t want to get into the expense of forced induction, but it would be nice to perk up the motor just a bit (measurable by the butt-meter), to hopefully make the car feel a *little* more like the S2000 I used to own (and regret selling).

Thanks again!
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:46 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by AnalogMan View Post
Wow! Thank you very much for all the great comments! I appreciate all the information, thoughts, and education.

I know the biggest gain would come from deleting the cat (whether in the stock header or aftermarket). Unfortunately, the emissions regulations and inspections in my area mean that I have to keep it. Iím not even completely sure if it would pass with the aftermarket cat on a catted header, or with a tune (which is why Iím leaning to OFT so I can reset the tune at inspection time).

I realize this car isnít a V8 torque monster muscle car (I have a Mustang GT if I feel the need to yank out tree stumps). The car in its stock configuration is pretty satisfying to drive as is. I donít want to get into the expense of forced induction, but it would be nice to perk up the motor just a bit (measurable by the butt-meter), to hopefully make the car feel a *little* more like the S2000 I used to own (and regret selling).

Thanks again!
To be honest, the best bang for buck without sacrificing emissions is a simple tune with an ethanol map. Both can be had for much less than $1,000. Search OFT or Ecutek. That will be the majority of your gains, and since you're not adding any hardware you will have no problems passing emissions when the time comes (just flash back to stock).
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Old 12-16-2019, 11:00 PM   #17
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If you have access to E85 no it is not worth it.
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Old 12-16-2019, 11:04 PM   #18
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Would be good if people with 2017 + header posted dyno graphs
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Old 12-16-2019, 11:07 PM   #19
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do you think if you gave your tech 20 bucks hed pass you on emissions catless? i understand youd be polluting etc, but thats your call.
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Old 12-16-2019, 11:32 PM   #20
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Once you have done the header install once or twice it is a pretty quick swap to swap back and forth come emissions.
You could also try an O2 spacer to pass.
You could get a V band cat and v band straight pipe to swap back and forth in a few minutes pass test and swap back in a few mins.

The problem with catted aftermarket headers they almost all use high flow cats which are notorious for going bad quickly and failing emissions anyways especially if you push the car hard frequently.
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Old 12-17-2019, 05:13 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Clutch Dog View Post
you wont see drastic peak power "through the buttcheeks"

but itll smooth out the mid range power dip, so it pulls more consistantly or as my shop manager said while driving
"holy crap this thing has some @$$ now"

and then after about a week itll feel "slow" again cause you dont have the ramp up in power once you cross 5000 rpm like the stock tune or even s2000 feels
haha, my thoughts today as was driving my FRS. Was wondering if my UEL actually makes more power. But yes, definitely smoothed out the power band, and got rid of the torque dip. Your explanation verified to me that my car is operating as it should with a UEL. Thanks.
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Old 12-17-2019, 03:22 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by AnalogMan View Post
I know the biggest gain would come from deleting the cat (whether in the stock header or aftermarket). Unfortunately, the emissions regulations and inspections in my area mean that I have to keep it. Iím not even completely sure if it would pass with the aftermarket cat on a catted header, or with a tune (which is why Iím leaning to OFT so I can reset the tune at inspection time).
https://www.mass.gov/service-details...le-inspections

Why are you speculating? It's an OBD test, you don't need to keep the cat to pass the test in MA, unless there's a visual component of it that I am missing.

There's no tailpipe test unless your local jurisdiction has stricter requirements.
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Old 12-17-2019, 05:45 PM   #23
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I have a 2019 BRZ and just got Gruppe-S catless headers (with a thermal coating), and a tune from CSG, and its amazing. The car pulls all the way to red line, it pulls to 100, no torque dip, I love it. Stock overpipe/front pipe/midpipe(resonator), nameless single exit muffled track pipe.


I plan on going in to get some dyno numbers from my local shop but they charge $100 for that so I haven't gone in.
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Old 12-17-2019, 05:51 PM   #24
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I am not sure what you mean by this? Do you mean headers without a tune have minimal difference? True if thats the case, but I think the person you were replying to meant someone with headers and a tune, which would gain a lot more than no tune.

It means a Pre 17 and post 17 model car will have the exact same end result / final number switching to the same header/tune configuration. but the 17+ model will have a slightly diminished gain as they are starting from a slightly higher spot. However that higher spot is only 5hp/5tq at the crank higher, so it is still a substantial enough gain to be worth it switching to a good header/tune on a 17+ model.

and i believe he was asking if anyone has done a baseline with a 2017+ as this thread is about how much do 2017+ models benefits from a header compared to pre 17s and that a baseline number for the 17+ would make that comparison easier.
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Old 12-17-2019, 07:48 PM   #25
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I have a 2019 BRZ and just got Gruppe-S catless headers (with a thermal coating), and a tune from CSG, and its amazing. The car pulls all the way to red line, it pulls to 100, no torque dip, I love it. Stock overpipe/front pipe/midpipe(resonator), nameless single exit muffled track pipe.


I plan on going in to get some dyno numbers from my local shop but they charge $100 for that so I haven't gone in.


This


Gruppe-S (Tomei clone) UEL headers and used OFT are best bang for buck to start off.


Keep ur original headers and swap back for emissions. They may not care as long as you keep the Cat on the Front Pipe. A lot of states just plug in OBII port and if its reading ok they will not bother you.
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Old 12-17-2019, 07:52 PM   #26
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I'd agree with others that if you have access to E85 and you are not on a race track one a month doing an HPDE, stock header.

This dyno is a comparison of running E85 with a factory 2017 header vs running a UEL header. There was less of a difference with the version 4 tune on a stock header.



This chart shows the stock header and differences between the v3 and v4 tune, you can see most of the mid-range bump came from that.

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Old 12-17-2019, 09:00 PM   #27
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IMO if you are replacing the OEM header for any UEL catless header your wasting money that could be spent elsewhere.

Just punch the OEM header, it will pass every visual test and you don't need to worry about thermal transfer.

Typically the decated OEM header is as good or better than any aftermarker UEL header.

The OEM header, look at its design specs, pipe diameters, runner lengths, then look at your UEL header choice and do the same. Then read up on fluid and thermal dynamics IRT manifold design.

The UEL header is a carry over from early EJ FI packaging.

From my days playing with STI's one of the first mods was to swap to a EL header, KillerB made some really nice headers that fixed a few typical issues that a UEL header brings up.

Look at every performance engine manifold design, if packaging allows they are all EL, they actually go to alot of trouble to ensure EL, then the diameters, lengths and collectors are designed for your power and rpm goals.

No respectable exhaust builder would concider designing a UEL header, unless it is for packaging.

Marketing and hype around the sound of the UEL header has seen the aftermarket claims grow beyond physics.

If you need to scrounge every available HP and torque then look at a ACE or simular.

Have a read of this for better clarification than my ramblings > https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-te...gn-and-theory/
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Old 12-17-2019, 09:32 PM   #28
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I have GT86 2019, Tomei header, Tune and Catless exhaust. Really worth it on the car man. You notice the big difference. Worth it man.
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