First test drive. Feeling disappointed.

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by imprezive

Based on my research, a 30% increase is way beyond the "standard"bolt-ons I plan on pursuing, especially since I'll be staying on 93 octane. Peak HP isn't really my top concern either. A 15% increase in torque in the midrange seems reasonable, achievable, noticable, and likely sufficient for me.

Hey, in the end, like you, I am just showing my results from parts that I have used and from using a known tuner who is at the top of their game.

If you are going to quote numbers, back them up with evidence.

I've supplied my results, plots and parts, plus others who have achieved typical results.

There is no sci-fi involved, just the ability of the tuner.

The big difference is the use of a tuner who actually knows what they are doing.

The best way you can spend your money is not cheap out on your tuning solution and tuner.

My favourite bits about this thread is the people that keep saying it's not possible and throw random baselines and fuels into the equation, if you did tune your car, post up some evidence, if not, then you are just talking out of your arse.

Ain't nothing to it but do it, talking about doesn't get it done.



Is it school holidays?

[Turdinator]

Originally Posted by imprezive

Cliff notes: How much can you feel the difference after adding a header/tune compared to stock? I know it is hard to describe, but please do your best.


Long version: When I was 17-23, I had some fun cars. Modded, autoXed, etc. For the last 10 years I've been driving a Toyota Corolla, because it just made sense economically and I had a lot of other things keeping me busy in my life. I've had the itch for a while to get a new car. I've been lurking here for about 3 months and reading as much as I can. I know the car is "under-powered". I know about the torque dip. That didn't really concern me. I plan on putting about 10k worth of mods into the car, but would like to keep it NA and very daily driver friendly. (I drive about 25k miles every year).

I've been avoiding test-driving the BRZ because I still want to wait a few more months and didn't want to get excited and jump the gun. I had a few hours to kill the other day, so I went to a dealership and drove one...

While it was more comfortable than I expected, I was really surprised how unimpressed I was with the "punch" (torque) of the motor. My 5-spd Corolla feels nearly as powerful. I had kinda expected that after driving my Corolla for so long anything would be a big step up.

I'm not looking for a rocket-ship, but just want to have an idea of the difference the standard header/tune bolt ons will make. Particularly regarding the "punch"/torque "feel" of the engine. I've looked at all the dyno charts, but I'm wanting to hear personal experiences.

Thanks!

Did you test drive the manual or auto?

The header, overpipe and mid pipe with tune does make a noticable difference to the driving experience. I was surprised at the difference it made to the part throttle feel. I also recommend a light flywheel and 17" wheels rather than 18".

[imprezive]

Originally Posted by Turdinator

Did you test drive the manual or auto?

The header, overpipe and mid pipe with tune does make a noticable difference to the driving experience. I was surprised at the difference it made to the part throttle feel. I also recommend a light flywheel and 17" wheels rather than 18".

MT. If the wheels are lighter than stock, wouldn't 18" still be an improvement? Cause 18s do look nice!

[Timmy_Jones]

Funny, this thread made me go back and read the review I wrote of the first time I drove the FRS: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30607 (2013)

I am now about 4 months removed from trading it in for a Focus RS. Sure the RS is fast, yeah it makes some really nice low/mid range power. But I miss my FRS. I really do. Header and tune was the best thing I ever did on that car.

Its worth it, you will love it.

[SuperTom]

Originally Posted by imprezive

MT. If the wheels are lighter than stock, wouldn't 18" still be an improvement? Cause 18s do look nice!

Not really the weight of the barrel is pushed out farther making it harder to spin up. 16's would spin up the easiest, lightweight 17's are the best compromise for looks/performance with the ability to still fit BBK

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by SuperTom

Not really the weight of the barrel is pushed out farther making it harder to spin up. 16's would spin up the easiest, lightweight 17's are the best compromise for looks/performance with the ability to still fit BBK

Real tires have sidewalls!

18s look too dubtastic on this car IMO. And correct, the larger diameter will increase the inertia of the wheel even with the weight drop.

[TommyW]

Get a different car. You'll never be happy with this one. You can put a bunch of money into the motor and then be way upside down in it and then still not be satisfied or create something that will be an unreliable mess.

[imprezive]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Real tires have sidewalls!

18s look too dubtastic on this car IMO. And correct, the larger diameter will increase the inertia of the wheel even with the weight drop.

This revelation about inertia made me rethink 18s, but then I went back and looked at pics. If 18s look dubstastic, then sign me up! Lol

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by imprezive

The 10k "wish list" looks something like:

OF Header
Invida over, mid, Q300
Takeda intake
Custom 93 octane tune
18x8 wheels w/ Michelin SuperSports
JDM under-aero
RCE Yellows with Bilstein B6s

My 2 cents...


Get a better header (ACE is great, but not cheap), forget about the intake entirely and just get a panel filter. A good custom tune is well worth it.

[imprezive]

Originally Posted by wparsons

My 2 cents...


Get a better header (ACE is great, but not cheap), forget about the intake entirely and just get a panel filter. A good custom tune is well worth it.

Rationale?

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by imprezive

Rationale?

Intakes are a waste of money on these cars, you'll make just as much power with a drop in filter and modified snorkel.


OFH is fine for a small increase, but there are much better options out there.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Intakes are a waste of money on these cars, you'll make just as much power with a drop in filter and modified snorkel.


OFH is fine for a small increase, but there are much better options out there.

I believe some intakes like grimmspeed did show reproducible gains over drop in filter. albeit minimal and need tuning/maf scaling. Filter would be best bang for buck, but can still squeeze out a couple HP with intake. Also i have seen posts and tests about modified snorkels actually producing less HP and the factory knew what they where doing when designing the stock snorkel.

Agreed OFH is not very good compared to a lot of other headers, especially the ACE.

If one was looking for absolute best bang for buck, drop in filter, OFH, with OFT ots stage 2 tune would be the choice, but you are leaving so much potential/possible NA gains on the table. Not what i would personally do. but to each their own i guess.

cant go wrong with ACE/DT package.

[mav1178]

Comparing cars based on how the engine "feels" also depends greatly on how the car is set up.

Some econoboxes have an aggressively programmed throttle input, to give you the illusion of more power (when in reality it's just 80% throttle opening at 50% input). Throttle controllers can make your car feel like it hauls absolute ass or slow as hell...

My Lexus ES300h has 3 setttings: Eco, Normal, and Sport. Eco will only give you 80% throttle opening (even when flooring it) and the initial throttle response is muted. Normal is ... normal. The Sport mode has a very aggressive throttle ramp and feels like I'm flooring the car from a normal full-stop acceleration, but nothing about the performance output of the car has changed.

Although, your post also reminds me why Japanese makers ditched the original engines for larger US-version engines 10-20 years ago... everyone in the US loves torque. The Corolla is no different.

[imprezive]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

Agreed OFH is not very good compared to a lot of other headers, especially the ACE.

I'm open to suggestions, but I greatly prefer the sound of UEL, and I can't rationalize spending over $1000 on headers. Obviously the ACE product is an excellent piece of hardware, but the cost is double most other headers!